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Question about intentions

edited October 2011 in Buddhism Basics
If we are planning to commit an action that we are certain will be beneficial to others, but our intention is selfish (acclaim), should we still commit the action?

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    If we know it's selfish, do it anyway. Just recognise your attachment to your self-opinion,
  • Yes, do it. If you are able to see your own intention clearly, there can be nothing wrong in the action even if the intention is selfish. By the way, can there be a situation where the intention is not selfish in doing an act? If Buddha preached to show the world how to live, it must have made him feel good to do it. You can never perform an action in a decent way unless it gives you pleasure in performing it. Selfless action is a physical impossibility.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    @ddrishi - there is a lot right with your post.
    There's also an awful lot wrong with it.....

    But I can't be asked to argue it..... :rolleyes:
  • ToshTosh Veteran
    I would say there's no such thing as true altruism. In Buddhism, so I believe, we have a skilful type of altruism. Ajahn Brahm talks about this. He says that we could sell our houses, give all our money away to the poor, but that would be stupid, 'cos we'd have nowhere to live.

    And in Buddhism, we help others, because it helps us; even if it's just that warm fuzzy feeling we get when we've been nice to someone.

    So, yeh, do it.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited October 2011
    it also depends what kind of acclaim you get, and what value you put on it.
    You're only as good as your last victory, I guess, and criticism should be expected and accepted to equal degree; that is, if you expect high praise, at one point, brace yourself for loud criticism, for the higher you rise, the harder you fall....

    Kipling had a good phrase....

    "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster,
    And treat those two impostors just the same....."

    I fully doubt that the reason the Buddha taught was to get a warm fuzzy feeling. In fact, he initially resisted the opportunity.
    Praise and blame, good and bad, all sides of the same coin. Neither really matter, or last.....
  • there is no good or bad, no right or wrong, but if an action benefits others then yes go for it.
  • life is about experimentation.
    see if it works.
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited October 2011
    I think you might be referring to something called "enlightened self interest" but that's not the kind of enlightened that Buddhists mean. It just means someone is smart enough to see that what benefits others or society as a whole is also of benefit to themselves, so they do it. It's more than we usually get out of people.

    For instance, a rich businessman might understand that a happy, prosperous nation with a workforce that has money to spend is the best way to ensure his own profit and let his business thrive in the long run. So he works toward helping people live a comfortable working class life even if it means a few of his profit dollars are given back to the society. It's just good business not to be TOO greedy. But this man doesn't really care about the less than rich, and certainly doesn't care about the poor, he's just smart enough to see what instability and recession do to his own bottom line. He still sees the world in terms of what's in it for him, and acts accordingly. That's enlightened self interest. Does that mean he should just maximize profit, shut down plants and eliminate jobs and let someone else worry about how people are going to get money to buy things? No, of course not.

    Another example, when Bodhidharma was summoned to the Emperor and this ruler pointed to all the Buddhist temples he'd ordered built and asked how much good karma did all that bring, Bodhidharma rightly said, "None whatsoever." But he didn't tell the Emperor to tear down the temples or stop building them. He just pointed out if you pay for a temple, in the end you have a temple, not good karma.

    But as pointed out, it's useless to divide our actions into pure, unselfish intentions and those that also benefit us in some way. If you do something that you see will benefit everyone, because it benefits everyone, then the fact it also benefits you is usually irrelivent. You're part of everyone.



  • @Cinorjer, that's a satisfactory answer; thanks!
  • Everyone apart from an enlightened person is selfish.

    Some types of selfishness is more skillful than others. The best is giving without any expectations whatsoever. One can give for different reasons: the good feeling, for fame,for merits, to appear charitable etc.
  • What if everyone is me?
  • edited October 2011
    Haha go ahead. It seems to be a brilliant plan. Benefitting every one else out of selfish needs. Pure genius that is.
  • ToshTosh Veteran
    edited October 2011


    I fully doubt that the reason the Buddha taught was to get a warm fuzzy feeling. In fact, he initially resisted the opportunity.
    Yes; maybe, but I'm a Buddhist, not the Buddha!

    Helping others makes me feel good. HHDL teaches that everything we do is to get pleasure or avoid suffering, so that will include helping others.



  • GuiGui Veteran
    You are not apart from everything. So when you do something to benefit others out of regard for yourself, you are only making a mistake thinking there is a self that would benefit. You are still making everything better. All is well.
  • from the Ambalatthika-rahulovada Sutta: Instructions to Rahula

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.061.than.html

    "What do you think, Rahula: What is a mirror for?"

    "For reflection, sir."

    "In the same way, Rahula, bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions are to be done with repeated reflection.

    "Whenever you want to do a bodily (*the same for verbal and mental) action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful bodily action with painful consequences, painful results, then any bodily action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful bodily action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any bodily action of that sort is fit for you to do.

    "While you are doing a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it.

    "Having done a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I have done — did it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Was it an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it led to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it was an unskillful bodily action with painful consequences, painful results, then you should confess it, reveal it, lay it open to the Teacher or to a knowledgeable companion in the holy life. Having confessed it... you should exercise restraint in the future. But if on reflection you know that it did not lead to affliction... it was a skillful bodily action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then you should stay mentally refreshed & joyful, training day & night in skillful mental qualities.
  • Do the action anyway. Then do more like it. Over time, if you keep doing things that benefit others you will start to think of yourself as a person who performs beneficial actions, and the 'good' intention will take care of itself.

    We don't call it 'practice' for nothing.
  • You might look also at suttas relevant about the "right intention"

    "And what is right resolve? Being resolved on renunciation, on freedom from ill-will, on harmlessness: This is called right resolve."

    more details here:
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-sankappo/
  • What if everyone is me?
    If everyone were you, you could put an end to all the pain and suffering in the world with a snap of your finger.

  • What if everyone is me?
    If everyone were you, you could put an end to all the pain and suffering in the world with a snap of your finger.

    Actually that idea helps to work on where things really can be changed *smile*
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