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Buddhism in the "Now"

edited November 2011 in Buddhism Basics
I have a few questions. First, I've been studying buddhism for a few years now and a few quesitons seem to be lurking. First, the idea of the now. When we live in the now and that is the point, how do we plan for the future?

Also, the idea of suffering. In buddhism they talk about how attaching yourself to things brings suffering. My question is, is there are things I want to attach myself too. I know that they might bring sadness in the future but I don't care.

Can you clarify these two things for me?

Comments

  • This question of being in the now, vs. planning for the future (not to mention: learning from past experience) has come up before. Someone said that mainly, being in the present applies to meditation. It's not meant to say: ignore the future. I've also read that the Buddha never used the terms "present moment" or "now" in this context. He spoke more of being aware of the arising and stilling of the breath, arising and ceasing of emotions, the arising and ceasing (or passing) of thoughts.
  • there is no "now". there is only the constantly changing process of interdependent parts coming together to have this experience.

    but asserting that...we prepare for the future in this moment.

    so if i have bills to pay, i pay them now. i also become aware of the fact that i have to pay for bills now. i am also thinking about the bills and thinking about planning about taking care of the bills now.

    if you don't attach to the outcomes of your clinging, then that is non attachment.
    if that were truly the case, then wouldn't you of not attached to begin with?

    imo having desires but not caring about the outcomes brings huge amount of detachment and indifference (in the negative sense).

    i think its very important that we suffer because we cling. that is our teacher. how else are we supposed to learn anything? we learn from our suffering. our suffering becomes the basis for our compassion towards ourselves and others. in our compassion we let go because we see clearly (wisdom) into the functions of suffering/clinging/ignorance.
  • Okay, so if we learn from attachment but buddhism tries to keep us from attachment, then why do they not treat the beauty of just basic trail and error, where we learn from our mistakes and improve. For the little I've gotten from buddhism it tries to seperate us from the Ego, am I wrong? Because the ego is where we lose control or lose the identity of who we really are. However, if I am not the ego and I am Satre's essence then I can seperate myself from the idea of living. For example, lets say I am at a concert and the music is in me. Well, I can always seperate my essance from my ego. It's the ego that is feeling the music; however, the essance is serene. I feel like if I chose to go to this state of essace I am living a peaceful life. However, I am not really alive. Being alive is being in the music. Being in love.

    I really wish to have this clarified.
  • Interesting points - helps in answering my question on another thread I just posted on "what is it OK to want". Thinking about the responses also brought upon an intense period of awareness! :om: Loving these discussions at the moment :)
  • That didn't really answer anything for me? I'm sorry.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2011
    The past and the future are determined in relation to the present. But thoughts of the past occur in the present don't they? And ideas of the future.

    And what about the present? As soon as we say one moment is the present it is gone.

    Since the past, present, and future are all assigned in relation to eachother that means that they are dependently arisen. Which means that 'future' has no quality in itself, rather it is just a point defined in relation to other points.

    Here's something I read:

    If you are depressed you are stuck on the past
    If you are anxious you are stuck on the future
    If you are at peace you are resting in the present (in touch with what is here)
  • Jeff, I like that point. By the time I write this sentence the present is gone. I get it. Okay, so I understand that the present is now. How do I plan for the future when I must live in the present. Not only that, with the logic you gave how do I ever not live in the present. For example, if the present is now even though I am thinking about the future, I am thinking about the future in the present moment. I don't understand the idea of living in the present when I need to set goals and plan for the future.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited November 2011
    The ego is related to misunderstanding reality. The ego is actually just repetitive thinking of a self we need to defend from pleasure/pain gain/loss praise/blame fame infamy.

    The whole reason to notice the ego is thinking is because we don't control those eight things (pleasure pain etc). So if we get obsessed with those things we suffer.

    This doesn't mean we don't try to create works of art, raise children, run businesses.

    It means that if you are obsessive of your car and it gets a scratch you freak out. But buddhism teaches you to let go and accept what happens.

    Force is never used to let go. Rather clear vision that the car is impermanent leads you to the wisdom to let the car go.

    ******

    Another use of ego is to mean pride. Almost the same thing.



    "Jeff, I like that point. By the time I write this sentence the present is gone. I get it. Okay, so I understand that the present is now. How do I plan for the future when I must live in the present. Not only that, with the logic you gave how do I ever not live in the present. For example, if the present is now even though I am thinking about the future, I am thinking about the future in the present moment. I don't understand the idea of living in the present when I need to set goals and plan for the future."

    Its no problem to plan for the future but we are not 'lost' in the future. We know we are planning for the future rather than 'lost' in thought. Its kind of like another relaxation. We plan but we don't get neurotic and afraid. We know the future has surprises :)

  • Okay, I think I am understanding what you are saying. So, for example, if the idea is to let go, and just allow things to happen and not try to control things you can't control for example how things are going to occur, then you won't be affected if things do go wrong. Is that right?

    Okay, so what that means to me is not trying to control the reprocutions of your actions. Just let things happen. Is that correct?

  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    Matt, do you ever go into a automaton-like state? You're off in your thoughts and your body is in autopilot. Does this ever happen to you? This happens to me all. the. time. This is not being in the present. This is the opposite of being in the present.
  • You might take very good care of your car. You might learn to fix it yourself and wash it. But when it gets in a crash you feel such pain. And you notice the feeling and allow it to be there. You don't have to do anything... just stay with the feeling.

    I've experienced this with losing people and you feel very intense but the feeling burns bright in you rather than being against the feeling and saying 'it is not ok'..

    We have tapes in our head that tell us things are not ok. Its good because we want to be happy and that is good. But the buddhist medicine is to know that those tapes are just thinking.

    In a sense you have more control because your thoughts control you. And buddhist
    practices to have peace. Thus the thoughts are not in control. By thought I mean thought worlds like a depression or something. A depression is made up of passing thoughts and feelings. It isn't true reality it is just clouds in the sky. And they won't be there forever :)
  • ArnArn
    edited November 2011
    That didn't really answer anything for me? I'm sorry.
    lol, sorry mattymatt, it wasnt an answer, just a comment. I'm struggling with the same type of questions!

    My answer to your last question regarding ego & essence and living a peaceful life v's being in the music/being in love, is that you appear to assume we have multiple personalities. I'd say this isnt true. There is only the one "you", listening and loving the music, experiencing those feelings, and at the same time taking note of that experience. I'd say use your awareness of your feelings of love and challenge yourself to increase that experience, to feel every single part of it, to let it grow and expand until all of your awareness is completely filled with it.

    The non-attachment comes when the music stops. Rather than living a life of misery until the next concert, simply step out of the show and love the very next part of life that hits you. Love walking back to your car. Love saying goodbye to a dying friend. Love seeing a pretty girl walk by. Love cleaning the toilet.

    To me one of the main points of observing your feelings in every moment is to recognise old habits and to change them.
  • being present is just paying attention. paying attention to what?
    the body and mind. in just watching with mindfulness we are being present.
    all experience arises within our subjectivity. to watch such experiences is to practice.

    you say the word being. that is very important. when there is just being, is there a problem?
  • I like this example. Thank you for sharing. However, I do have a problem with the basic buddhist idea. My problem is, is how do you know what pleasure is if you don't feel pain? How do you know what love is, if you don't feel lonliness? The idea that pain makes things taste better is what I really to my core believe.
  • You feel everything under the sun. In meditation too. You might have a sexual fantasy or a bad memory. Anything. And its all just passing feelings and thoughts.
  • Yeah, I think u guys are more correct than me. All the feelings we experience should be experienced - without attachment.
  • I don't understand
  • when i sit in zazen. i let all the tourists come and go. they ravage me with pain and bliss.

    but none of it is mine. none of it is graspable. none of it stays. just sitting in zazen i realize the peace that is always here even while the storms come and go.

    the peace or contentment is about relationship. to be okay with pain, to be okay with love. to accept it all unconditionally. it isn't something you do, but rather you be with it all. you don't push/pull. you just let it be. you let it run its course. thus in zazen all is okay and all is welcomed. this is right practice.

    but of course we want the good and shun the bad. but the more and more we practice, we can honestly welcome it all. for they are all teachers.
  • avidya is said to be the cause of suffering. It is translated into ignorance, but it can also be translated as avoidance. Avoiding sitting with our feelings and instead push/pull.
  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited November 2011
    I like this example. Thank you for sharing. However, I do have a problem with the basic buddhist idea. My problem is, is how do you know what pleasure is if you don't feel pain? How do you know what love is, if you don't feel lonliness? The idea that pain makes things taste better is what I really to my core believe.
    These are great questions in my opinion!

    The goal is not to remove sensation, such as having no taste buds or numbing the feeling. Rather, as we become more alert, we taste what is in front of us more directly. If you are thinking of dessert, you don't taste the broccoli as well. If you're thinking about sex, you don't taste dessert. If you're thinking about sleep, you don't feel the sex. If you're dreaming about broccoli... well, who dreams about broccoli?

    The point is that when we let go of the forward momentum of our thoughts, recognize they pull us away from being alert in the now, we see more clearly and really begin to taste our food. Pain still happens, then fades. Music happens, then fades. We don't have to hang onto them, as the beauty of love, as you put it, is flowing through us at all times. We only need to let our mind settle so we have the space to experience it.

  • edited November 2011
    being present is just paying attention. paying attention to what?
    the body and mind. in just watching with mindfulness we are being present.
    all experience arises within our subjectivity. to watch such experiences is to practice.
    Good post. It's an extreme statement, or maybe an oversimplification, when some say being in the present is all there is; there should be no dwelling in the past or imagining about the future. It's true, we shouldn't daydream about the future, or ruminate about the past. But we can learn lessons from the past, and of course, we need to plan for the future. These are constructive uses of viewing past and future. And we can remain mindful all the while.
  • I like this example. Thank you for sharing. However, I do have a problem with the basic buddhist idea. My problem is, is how do you know what pleasure is if you don't feel pain? How do you know what love is, if you don't feel lonliness? The idea that pain makes things taste better is what I really to my core believe.
    You're not trying to become a robot. Buddhism isn't the goal of becoming blank, it's about becoming awake to the way things *really* are, realising that there is no gap between 'you' and 'I' and becoming so filled with compassion and awareness of the present that we are calm and happy, whatever happens to us. There is a reason the Buddha is always portrayed with a smile on his lips!

    So, you live in the Now, but in the sense that you extract every ounce of juice out of the now. It's like the old saying "Live every day as if it is your last, but as if you are going to live forever".

    So you buy life insurance/medical insurance, but you don't worry about it. I was reading that many people in Britain do not have a will, which potentially causes great suffering to their loved ones if they die. Why do they avoid making wills? Well British people are scared to contemplate their own death, so they prefer to live in denial. That's not living in the present and being aware of the Now: it is fear of the future. And as a result of that fear, they fail to take the compassionate step of making a will, should the worst happen.

    There is a difference between not fearing the future, and living in it. The future is unknowable, so there is no point in worrying about it or imagining how it will be. We shouldn't let our imaginations run away with us. But that does not mean we pretend the future isn't going to happen. We plan, we make sensible preparations, but the rest we don't worry about.

    Same as the past. We'd be idiots if we neglected the past and refused to learn from it. Mistakes can be useful learning tools for the future, and guilt can motivate us to do better next time, or to make amends for wrong doing. What we don't do is live in the past, living with regrets and nostalgia, saying what might have been... that too is letting our imaginations run away with us.

    The key is acceptance: we accept what went before, learning as much as we can from it but not dwelling on it; we accept what will be, acknowledging that we can never really know how it will be or how we'd react to events. We accept that what is, is. If we can change it, good, if not, then we accept.

    But most of all, this present moment has so many riches which we'd miss if we were living in the past or the future. Worries and regrets have their place, but we must never give them centre stage in our lives because Now is the time where we live.

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