Meditation II: MediDEATH!

buddhafoot

Okay,

Someone out here put out an excellent post/question regarding meditation (and the difficulty doing said meditation) and what's it all about.

I asked Genryu to put up a post on meditation since I think that's all he does besides yacking on here. And and excellent post it was, I might add.

But I wanted others out here to post their thoughts on meditation and their practice. I think Elohim does more than just read suttas - but I could be wrong. Palzang is something - I don't know what exactly, but practicing Buddhism is his day to day activity. Simon... who knows what Simon does - but it would be interesting to find out.

I was wondering if these members (and others) could post what their beliefs or practices are regarding meditation. I just kind of wanted a full circle informational thread to continue with all flavors being discussed.

Anyone can post. I just wanted a thread that dealt with the many practices of meditation for those who may be new to it, not so much into the Zen thing, for exposure into as many areas as possible. Also the pitfalls, difficulties, etc. that you may experience in meditation to possible alleviate the mysticalness of it.

Thanks!

-bf

buddhafoot

Here is what Genryu posted...

1) It's directed in the sense that we bring ourselves back again and again to the body/breath/mind. Ultimately though, it goes beyond technique, as in Shikantaza or Dzogchen. Sitting does sitting, breathing does breathing.

2) I would say that meditation has nothing to do with any particular posture, yet the effort to sit in meditation is indispensable and to sit in meditation is itself a complete manifestation of the awakened mind. If for some reason you can't sit because of a physical problem, then lie down. If you can sit - sit. There's posture of mind and posture of body and they are both two different manifestations of the same thing - body and mind are one and meditation helps us to begin to realize this experentially - to gradually integrate body/mind so that we see that fundamentally there is no separation between breath/body/mind/others/ourselves/this/that.

These excerpts from a couple of Dharma talks might be of interest. Bear with me here because it's going to be a long post and some of this you may already be well aware of:

What is the point of the posture of zazen?

To learn to open past what you think of as “you”;

To learn to step past all of the states you believe yourself to be

Into who and what you truly are,

Awareness in Itself.


What does the posture point to?

The posture points to Awareness in Itself.

Why don’t you already know this?

You do. But you choose to ignore it.


...There is an appearance of balance and alignment, but some of you are already uncomfortable even though you’ve only been sitting for a few minutes.

And so although it may seem quite still in the room, there are already some subtle and not so subtle movements going on here and there – someone rocking very slightly; toes flex, a foot shuffles just a little, a small shift of the head – subtle callisthenics to relieve perceived tension in the neck. Some of us understand the importance of simply sitting still. Others who have not been practicing for quite as long are not as clear about this. In ten or fifteen minutes the little “corrections” going on around the room will become more and more obvious as students begin to argue with themselves about how their posture “should” be.

Now we might think that these little movements – the shuffling of a foot a slight rocking motion or the continuous movements generated by arguing with oneself over one’s posture are okay because we are sitting and we’re just “trying to get it right” or some such thing, but they’re not okay. As our Teacher, Ven. Anzan Hoshin roshi often says “If you move while sitting zazen, you simply haven’t sat. You’ve just been sitting around instead of practising a round of zazen.”

One of the most important things that we are practising when we sit is the posture itself. The posture of zazen lets the body sit as the body itself instead of holding it captive to our usual states, thoughts, feelings and storylines. Ordinarily, when we experience a state of sadness or anger or confusion, whether alone or with other people, we act it out with the body by doing such things as physically tightening, allowing the spine to collapse, sighing, fidgeting, grimacing, rocking, shifting, twitching, pursing the lips, clenching the teeth or going slack-jawed, narrowing the eyes, twiddling our thumbs and on and on and on. A thought, a feeling, even the memory of something that happened 30 minutes or 30 years ago can express itself bodily and when we do this what we are doing is reinforcing the state.

When we sit in zazen, what the posture points to is not what you ordinarily think of as “you”, which is a collection of habits and tendencies. In fact, your whole life points to the fact that it is not about you and never has been. The posture of zazen is very simple and very clear. The point of the posture is to sit in the reality of this moment. The posture points to the open space of reality all around and within and as the bodymind.

Let’s start at the very beginning, the beginning of the sitting round. You have a minute or so to arrange your posture and you must do this mindfully because you cannot “fix” it later. Once everyone is settled and the room is quiet, we begin the sitting round with the set of forms all students are instructed to use: We bow forward and exhale; we straighten and inhale; we settle into balance point.

Everything is positioned as well as you can position it. You are sitting up straight, nose over the navel, ears over the shoulders, balanced and aligned. Your hands are resting in the mudra, with all of the fingers in full contact with one another, the thumbs forming a gentle arch.

Now stay like that.

No movement for the next 30 minutes: No fidgeting, no fixing anything, no changing posture. Sit still. If you don’t move out of alignment, there’s nothing to fix, no corrections to be made.

Anything, any thought, any feeling, any impulse, any idea, any movement of attention, any reactivity that causes you to begin to move at all needs to be noticed and released immediately. The only way that you can do that is if you are feeling into the sensations of the body from the beginning of your sitting round, and moment after moment, doing this continuously for the next 30 minutes. This means you will need to refresh your practice again and again and again and again and again. It means that you have to actually pay attention with each breath. This is what practice is – continuous mindfulness of whole-bodily experience, opening to the seeing and hearing. This is not the time to think about anything, let alone think about how you feel about anything. It requires that you make an effort to open past thoughts and feeling tones.

An occasional adjustment to the posture such as straightening the spine a little or realigning the mudra is acceptable, but this shouldn’t be necessary more than two or three times during a half-hour sitting round even if you are very tired. Again, if you are continuously feeling into the sensations of the body, releasing any states, thoughts or feelings that begin to pull the bodymind out of alignment as soon as they come up, you won’t go out of alignment in the first place, so there is no need to constantly adjust your posture.

The Point of the Posture and What it Points to


And this one, which also touches more on why the form, the way things are done in Buddhist practice - including both posture and ritual are indispensable:


This practice closes the gaps between our body and mind, and between our attention and our activity.

So much of the time, we are lost in our thoughts or separated from our experience. We may do several things at once: we may listen to music and eat or smoke, or talk on the telephone while we are driving; we may say one thing while we are feeling something else, or we may allow our mental activity to wander endlessly away from what we are actually doing. This becomes such a strong unconscious habit that we end up losing much of our lives. We all tune out, a little or a lot, from our actual life, and I think we do this initially because of painful circumstances, or because we are bored, which we may experience as painful because boredom is such a dead space. Over time, the process of tuning out becomes such a habit that it tends to accompany all of our activity. Getting in touch with the process we go through as we tune out, as well as with what prompts us to tune out, is a big step in closing the gap between our actual life, here and now, and our imaginary, projected, or conceptualized life.

In Zen practice, at least in Japanese Zen, instead of using mindfulness practices, the forms are used to bring us back to the aliveness we can only know in our concrete existence. By forms I mean both the formalized movements we make, like bowing, as well as the way we regard and handle things which brings a kind of presence to the space or to the thing itself. I’ve heard that in traditional Japanese culture, the value of a piece of art depended not only on the quality of the object and who created it, but also on who owned it and the care and regard they brought to the piece.

One aspect of the forms is precision. There is a specific way that the forms are done, and this precision isn’t important because there is a right and a wrong way of doing them, but because the precision, or lack of it, provides information about whether we are present with the detail of what we are doing or whether we have drifted away.

Many of the instructions for Zen meditation are directed to the physical details of our posture. The culture that Zen grew out of made much less distinction between the body and mind than our culture does. So, the idea is that sitting upright, aligning the spine and being still physically, supports the mind in settling and becoming focused. In Zen we tend to work with the mind indirectly, through the body. As you know, this meditation posture [“lotus” position] developed in India. It’s a yogic posture. Each aspect of the position, actually of any position, effects our state of mind. So, Zen meditation isn’t something we do only with the mind. What we practice with is much wider than the boundaries of our thinking. In Zen it is said that realization must penetrate every cell of our body, down to the marrow of our bones and out to each tip of our hair. In Zen practice, we use our body as an ally to enable us to practice with the totality of our being.

Suzuki Roshi said,

“You should sit zazen with your whole body: your spine, mouth, toes, mudra. Check on your posture during zazen. Each part of your body should practice zazen independently or separately. You should feel each part of your body doing zazen separately....Don't move your legs for your own convenience. Your legs are practicing their own zazen independently and are completely involved in their own pain. They are doing zazen through pain. You should allow them to practice their own zazen....” [Talk given during zazen 6/28/70]

We have different ways to work with the habitual activity of our body, speech, and thought. We sit down and practice zazen and let our habitual patterns begin to unwind. We give our body, speech, and mind new activities which lead to disentangling. For example, we have several positions for our hands. These are specific, intentional positions; they aren’t some kind of coincidence or accident. Each of these positions affects our state of mind. For example, in walking meditation, we place our hands in a firm, contained position. When we bow, we place our palms together with no gaps between the fingers and thumb of each hand in the mudra the Japanese call gassho.

In zazen, we use what is called the “cosmic mudra,” in which the hands are overlapping and connected, but open. As you know there is a lot of emphasis on being upright and keeping the spine well aligned. I think that, after aligning the spine, the next most important aspect of the zazen posture is the position of the hands. For years, I put my hands into the mudra and then rested them, sort of like a dead weight, on the top of my thighs, and forgot about them while I went on to follow my breathing.

At some point, I got the idea to hold my hands up higher on my abdomen so that my thumbs were near the height of my naval. This brought a different kind of balance to my overall alignment. It felt as though there was less weight bearing down on my body, so there was less to hold up. It brought a lightness to my posture. I find that when I pay attention to the roundness of the hands, and to the very, very light contact between my thumbs, it keeps me present and in my body, and I fall asleep much less. When my attention drifts away, my hands tend to come down, and the open, round shape changes and my thumbs separate. Holding the hands in this manner, requires intention and attention, but, at the same time, there is an openness of shape, and a lightness of contact between the thumbs. I’ve found that the dynamic or aliveness of my hands in this position isn’t separate from my state of mind.

In each of the positions we use for our hands in the Zendo, the hands are brought together, which supports the mind in coming to one-pointedness. One way to practice in activity is to practice doing things with both hands. Whatever you are doing, see if you can do it with two hands instead of one. This will slow you down, but it will simplify your activity, helping to keep your mind on your activity.

Some of the forms we use are more apparent than others. I think explaining too many details in the beginning can be overwhelming and actually obscure practice. For example, it is traditional to enter the Zendo on the left side of the doorway, stepping into the room with the left foot, but this doorway is so narrow, that once a person is in it, there isn’t really a left and right side to it. So, one way to work on being present is to try to step through the doorway with your left foot. Suzuki Roshi suggested that we turn clockwise when we sit down on the zafu to face the wall and, again, when zazen is over to turn clockwise before we stand up. A practical side of this is that we are all turning the same direction so it is less likely that we will bump into each other. We use the form of bowing when we enter the Zendo, and bowing to and away from our cushions before sitting down, and bowing when we pass in front of the altar. These arbitrary details help us notice our preferences, our strong or subtle likes and dislikes, and they give us a background against which to contrast our usual tendencies and conditioned activity. When we do such meaningless activity as bowing to cushions or holding the chant card with two hands instead of one, or stopping and taking off our shoes before entering a room and then stopping and putting our shoes back on when we leave, this helps us extend ourselves beyond our rational, logical minds.

We bow to our cushions or to the altar or to each other not because we, here, are Buddhists, or the Buddha figure is “sacred,” or because our practice is special. We bow because every*thing is special. What all this bowing and stepping forward with a particular foot does is to pull us out of the realm of our mental constructs, our incessant mental activity, into the realm of what is actually right before us.

I find that Doan work, ringing the bells in zazen and service, and eating formal meals in the Zendo give me the opportunity to go beyond depending on my thinking to know when to ring the bell, or to know what comes next in the Zendo meal, so more of my consciousness is available, and my experience isn’t fenced in by the boundaries of my ability to track what is next.

The oryoki or Zendo meal is a wonderful activity in which to practice doing one thing at a time. We really have to pay attention to what we are doing and how we are doing it. For the Zendo meal, we eat at our places with our bowls on the floor. If you are wearing robes, and only have one set of robes, you really don’t want to spill anything. I find that I am more concentrated when I use both hands. I pick up each bowl with two hands, move the utensils with both hands. I also find that I am more concentrated when I keep my back straight, in the zazen posture, while I am eating, which means I must bring the bowl up to my mouth to eat.

Although monastic life is filled with forms, the point isn’t to recreate the forms perfectly. There is nothing right or wrong, sacred or profane about the forms. They are arbitrary or agreed upon ways of doing an activity. The forms support us to attend to our state of mind in the midst of our activity. So, whatever situation arises, whatever happens, we address that and take care of it as if it were our state of mind without worrying about making mistakes. The emphasis is on sincerity and one-pointedness of mind. Suzuki Roshi said, “When you do something, if you fix your mind on the activity with some confidence, the quality of your state of mind is the activity itself.”

In Zen our practice is to bring the wholehearted activity of our body and mind to the simple, full presence of this moment. There’s really nothing else. Rather than trying to control or analyze our experience, we bring our attention back to our presence. We use our body to support our mind in doing this. We use the stability of our body to stabilize our mind, trusting the self that is independent of knowing East or West, black or white, up or down.

The Enlightened Body

-bf

YogaMama

Good idea...I am anxious to hear what some of the other "expert meditators" have to say about it. So....where is everyone?? The boards seem really slow this week.

_BeautifulSpringtime

Meditation is central to my practice. I cannot express how important it is to the path, IMHO.

There are some things that reading all the suttras in the world cannot help you grasp/let go of. I therefore would humbly request that if you're really interested in Buddhism put down the latest addition to your Dharma book collection and sit in meditation for at least 10 minutes every day. For those of you who actually do this: please let me know how you get on. My only reason for posting on this forum has been, and always will be, to help in any way I can.

From personal experience I've found that my Western preconceptions about progress interfered with my practise, initially. I was really hung up on ideas and thoughts about 'the next step' or finding a 'new level' of consciousness to exist in during meditation.

And why shouldn't I have been going in this direction with my meditation? All throughout our lives we are told to 'set goals' and reach for the next rung on the ladder. From an early age we learn to expect 'results' and qualify them as either bad or good. In other words I had been conditioned to the idea of progress. For a year or so I was frustrated that I wasn't seeing progress!

Then I read (and I'm paraphrasing here):

'Every inch sat is an inch sat as the Buddha'

And my understanding of meditation changed.

Please let me stress that any practise of meditation, whether you concieve it as good or bad, is simply still practise. This does not mean that I think: "Oh yeah, time for me to relax for 35 minutes as I 'practise' my meditation". Far from it. Every time I sit, I sit with my whole being - remember Right Effort . Sometimes the waves of my mind are rough and choppy other times they are calm and still. In every instance I sit with my whole being and watch the mind.

Which ever meditation techniques you choose to use - use them with your whole being. We practise because it is our nature, as Dharma students, to practise. Just as it was Sakyamuni's nature to sit and practise. This is a key point, I think, to walking the path. Which, by the way, I am honoured to do so alongside all of you.

Xrayman

buddhafoot wrote:

Okay,

Someone out here put out an excellent post/question regarding meditation (and the difficulty doing said meditation) and what's it all about.

I asked Genryu to put up a post on meditation since I think that's all he does besides yacking on here. And and excellent post it was, I might add.

But I wanted others out here to post their thoughts on meditation and their practice. I think Elohim does more than just read suttas - but I could be wrong. Palzang is something - I don't know what exactly, but practicing Buddhism is his day to day activity. Simon... who knows what Simon does - but it would be interesting to find out.
I was wondering if these members (and others) could post what their beliefs or practices are regarding meditation. I just kind of wanted a full circle informational thread to continue with all flavors being discussed.

Anyone can post. I just wanted a thread that dealt with the many practices of meditation for those who may be new to it, not so much into the Zen thing, for exposure into as many areas as possible. Also the pitfalls, difficulties, etc. that you may experience in meditation to possible alleviate the mysticalness of it.

Thanks!

-bf

WTF am I?

Chopped Liver?

What do you think I do all day, BF?:rant:

*Thinking out aloud*

Oh! that's right I don't do much at all apart from write mundane and *attempted witicisms* to the discussion forums here..

Forget it. Maybe I am Chopped Liver.

sorry

Xray

buddhafoot

Xrayman wrote:

WTF am I?

What are you?

Well, my friend, you're umm... uh...

Xrayman!

That's what you are and I'm glad to have you here.

-bf

Xrayman

cool. it was a joke BF.

regards,
X

Jerbear

I am no expert, but I do meditate regularly. One thing that has helped me is stick-to-itiveness. It doesn't matter much how you meditate, but that you meditate. As Elohim has pointed out, there are 40 different types of meditations the Buddha taught, but if you don't do one, then there is a problem.

First of all, keeping time. Buying an inexpensive timer is really worth it. You don't worry about how long you have been meditating, you just do it. That's how I got up to 30 minutes a day. Not all have that kind of time. But 10 minutes a day to start is a great idea.

I was listening to this Dharma talk from Tricycle the other day about the Hindrances. As a reminder the classical hindrances are:
1. Desire
2. Anger
3. Sloth
4. Restlessness
5. Doubt

This teacher was pointing out that not only should we recognize them during meditation but try to understand where they are coming from. I realized that I've had a lot of anger running through me these days. Plus some restlessness. I'm really trying to see where they are coming from so that I can recognize the impact they have on my practice. Some people think they should have a perfectly still mind every time they meditate. Sorry if you think this. I have to deal with thoughts and attitudes every time I meditate. The other day I wanted the clock to go faster. Wasn't really in the mood. But did it anyway.

So there, a relative newcomer can say something on this thread also.

Jason

All,

I do not have the time, nor the words, to describe my practice in any great detail. My meditation varies depending on the time, place, occasion, as well as other variables. All I can say is that my meditation is used for a very specific purpose.

In my view, the Path is not the Goal; the Path only leads one to the Goal. Meditation is essential for this. Once the Goal is reached, however, the Path is no longer needed. I do not say this simply to be obscure, but words mean very little when it comes to samadhi. You simply must use it to help clear away the ignorance that prevents you from developing insight into the nature of the conditioned world. That's it. That is why I generally focus more on the Suttas when posting. Meditation is really something that must be experienced first hand. Of course, questions should be asked [and answered] when one has them about meditation practice, but it is really only useful when the person asking is actually practicing it.

What this basically means is that meditation, regardless of a person's view about it, must simply be done. Read the Suttas, discover the various methods that the Buddha taught, and begin practicing. So, as a popular brand of shoe advises, just do it!



Jason

federica

Lovely post BSF....

Very illuminating, Jerbear...

Spot on as usual, Elohim.

Brigid

Hi, BF.

Here's what I'm doing. I'm still new to formal meditation so this is from the beginner's perspective.

Since I don't have a teacher, I've chosen HH the Dalai Lama, through his books, to be my guide to the basics.

In his book "An Open Heart: Practicing Compassion in Everyday Life", which is a book for the general public, not just Buddhists, he says:

"Contemplating the painful nature of life, considering the methods by which our misery can be brought to an end, is a form of meditation. This book is a form of meditation. The process by which we transform our more instinctual attitude to life, that state of mind which seeks only to satisfy desire and avoid discomfort, is what we mean when we use the word meditation. We tend to be controlled by our mind, following it along its self-centered path. Meditation is the process whereby we gain control over the mind and guide it in a more virtuous direction. Meditation may be thought of as a technique by which we diminish the force of old thought habits and develop new ones. We thereby protect ourselves from engaging in actions of mind, word or deed that lead to our suffering. Such meditation is to be used extensively in our spiritual practice.
...we must ultimately develop more than mere academic knowledge of the Dharma. We must integrate the truths of the Buddha's teaching into the depths of our very being, so that they become reflected in our lives. Compassion is of little value if it remains an idea. It must become our attitude toward others, reflected in all our thoughts and actions.
...it is important to remember that you must cultivate virtuous mental habits whenever and wherever possible. You cannot limit meditation to formal sessions."

So, when I'm not actually sitting, I remain constantly aware of my thoughts, speech and actions in everyday life to form a basis for meditation. I analyze my emotions by figuring out where they're coming from and I concentrate on seeing the world and those around me with a loving and compassionate heart. There are a whole bunch of exercises that I do, like putting myself in other people's shoes, catching myself if I'm about to judge someone or engage in gossip etc. Just basically following Right Speech, Action and so forth to the best of my ability. I spend a lot of time working on my particular weaknesses like patience. I think about impartial compassion a lot, too. Especially for those I've found difficult to love.
All of this helps me when I do sit because I'm watching my mind, practicing mindfulness.

When I sit, I practice "Calm Abiding" or single pointed thought in order to tame my mind. I mostly do breathing awareness because I'm still in the first stage. So, all I'm really doing is concentrating on my breathing but I spend most of the time drifting away from the object and devoting a lot of effort to bring my mind back to it. I sit as often as I can. And I'm practicing with eyes open. I struggle a lot with relaxing my jaw and trying not to blink. And I really have a tough time staying alert because of my pain meds so I try to sit right before the next dose when the last one is wearing off. I may have to go out and sit in the snow or something because I have to give up too soon when I can't fight the drowsiness. I may have to stop taking my meds at some point so I can have some pain and more alertness. But we'll see.

When I'm not sitting, I'm often doing the same thing, drifting away from the moment and constantly bringing my mind back to this moment now. Just your basic mindfulness. For example, when I'm making tea I consciously concentrate on just the making of the tea, the filling of the kettle, the warming of the teapot, and when my mind starts to drift to other thoughts, like "I wonder what the dresses are going to be like at the Oscars this year", I drag my mind back to the task at hand. I try to do this with everything.

I used to pride myself on my ability to hyper focus on a single task. But now I know I wasn't doing that at all. Except when reading or writing.

There's only been one cool change for me so far which is that I'm starting to get to know my mind a little better. Not much, yet, but I did have one moment when it felt like I was seeing my thought process like an outside observer. It happened really quickly and then it was gone. I remember it perfectly but haven't been able to recreate it. It was a spontaneous thing, probably because I've been practicing. But I know this process is going to take a very long time. I have an unruly mind. But I don't care how long it takes. And I'm not going to judge myself about it. It'll take however long it takes. I feel like a baby in this and I'm in no rush to grow up. At this stage I'm just playing with my spit bubbles.

And that's it so far. I doubt this is very interesting to anybody but it's a nice little exercise for me to put it into words and clarify it for myself.

Brigid

Frizzer

My practice is the same as BSF's (unsurprising as we both follow Soto Zen).

I admit I buy stacks of books and love reading but the first time I had a talk with the resident monk at the temple she told me to stop reading and trying to intellectualise things.
The most important part of our practice is zazen and in this tradition we are told that no amount of reading other people's words can bring you to realisation. You have to do the work which in this case is sitting staring at a wall and just "being there" amongst it all.

This is one of the things that drew me to Soto Zen, the fact that the practice is essentially so simple but so powerful.

I still enjoy reading though but I try not to get too involved in theoretical stuff and just concentrate on what I see and know.

YogaMama

Great advice, Frizzer.

buddhafoot

Xrayman wrote:

cool. it was a joke BF.

regards,
X

I know, stinker

-bf

buddhafoot

Thanks for all the posts, people.

It just seemed that there have been questions from people new to Buddhism that were having a hard time figuring out what was supposed to be going on during meditation.

I'm hoping that having a thread like this for reference might be good reading for those starting up meditation.

As for me?

Meditation is about as unmystical as it can be. I usually light some incense, sit down on my snazzy zafu that Genryu sent me, take a few moments to get comfortable and then... sit.
If I haven't been practicing for awhile, my mind races for awhile - and I have to keep bringing it back into focus

Breathe in - pay attention to what is happening at that moment of the intake of breath. The coolness of the air coming in, the expanding of the lower stomach, any noises that may be going on around me. Sometimes, if it's too noisy, I will even put on a meditation piece of music I made to block out all the banging. It's a 15 minute piece so I know how long I'm meditating... ooops.
Breathe in...
Breathe out... pay attention to what is happening at the leaving of breath. 1.
Breathe in...
Breathe out... 2
If any thoughts fly in, I smile at how crazy my brain is at times, accept this fact, harness in all those thoughts...
Breathe in...
Breathe out...
If I feel any pain or discomfort (little twinges, itches, etc.) I acknowledge them for what they are - I don't adjust - I just accept them.

Sometimes, I will do a type of Compassion meditation that Brian has talked about. I think about all the people I know. I name them one by one and wish good hopes and thoughts for each of these people. NOT JUST PEOPLE I LIKE - but all people. Even some of the wackos I know.

If anyone wants my funky 15 minute meditation piece... I'll be more than happy to post it here.

-bf

sharpiegirl

I too Brigid have started with just being concience of my thoughts and every movement. I know mediation is so much more than this, but as a beginner...

In the TB of L and D, S. Rinpoche goes into some detail about mediation (as I am sure we will discuus in the New Book Discussion thread.

I also appreciated someone's post making the analogy of meditaion is like driving a car and billboards.

Have a great day everyone!

YogaMama

BF - yes, please post your funky 15 minute meditation piece for us to read.

federica

yay, plunk the funk - !!

Hanna

I'm very much a beginner when it comes to meditation (and I suspect I will be for quite some time, which is okay).

I sit somewhere between 10 and 40 minutes a day, so far without using any sort of timer but I think I'll try using one and sit for about 30 minutes, and watch my breath, sometimes counting it, sometimes not. I still haven't figured out what works best for me.

It's quite enjoyable, I feel more grounded or in my body, even as my mind feels more distracted and scattered than ever ... it's almost amusing how distractable the mind is. (Though not so amusing when you need to sleep but can't because the thoughts just don't want to stop running ).

The rest of the day, I just try to stay focused on and aware of what I'm doing, take note of feelings that surface, etc. If I get too scattered or distracted I'll focus on my breath a little while before I get back to what I was doing. I want to find more ways of bringing the practice outside of the designated time.

I haven't noticed any real improvement of the meditation practice, but I've had more insight into some long-standing habits and issues outside of practice since I started (and I wasn't expecting that to happen), maybe mostly because I can't hide from myself the way I used to, I can't push things down as effectively because I know they'll come back up ... or something like that.

Another (completely unexpected) side-effect is that, especially when standing or walking, my posture has improved.

buddhafoot

Well, it's not a read... it's just 15 minutes worth of drums and bells...

I'll post it tonight if I can't find it on my work box...

-bf

YogaMama

Oh, wait...didn't you post that a while ago? Wasn't it you that posted different backround music for us to listen to while meditating?

buddhafoot

Yes, I did. Quite awhile ago.

It's nothing special - don't think I'm posting a work of art.

It's just 15 minutes of "not much" when I'm meditating and the house is noisy.

You can download it from here....Just go to this site, Right Click / Save As...

www.claymohr.com/meditation

There is a 15 minute one and a 20 minute one.

-bf

Frizzer

sharpiegirl wrote:

I also appreciated someone's post making the analogy of meditaion is like driving a car and billboards.

I'm glad the analogy was useful. I think Gil Fronsdal's dharma talks are excellent for explaining things.

He has a page full of them here Gil's Talks

They are well worth having a listen to if you get the time.
I'll also bung this up on the audio files thread.

sharpiegirl

Oh, I WAS you Frizzer...thanks...I couln't rmemeber if it was you or BF.

Thanks for the site, too.
I will check it out!:smilec:

Frizzer

You're welcome Sharpiegirl ! :thumbsup:

YogaMama

I think someone posted this site a while back, but it is very helpful, so here it is again:

http://www.mro.org/zmm/meditation/index.html

Jerbear

Hey Gang,

Today's meditation for me was tough. I know this is good as something is coming up that I need to deal with. Been angry alot recently and trying to deal with it. But then it kind of hit me why. Boy, will my therapist get an earful next week. So maybe it was good. It is things that I can bring to the Buddha within and examine it.

One thing that I usually see is people saying an amount of time to meditate, and I am guilty of it. I usually set a timer for 30 minutes, but if I don't make it to 30 minutes, I'm going to be okay with it. I say this so that others may realize that their meditation practice is theirs. All of us are coming from different places and our needs are different. There is a certain amount of discipline involved but the biggest thing is to do it. If 10 minutes is all you can do, FANTASTIC! If you can do 2 hours, you don't have a life! Just poking fun, but that works too.

If you can, try to support Buddhist businesses. I try to get my stuff online. This one guy I know makes really cool malas. PM Frizzer for more info.

buddhafoot

Jerbear wrote:

If you can, try to support Buddhist businesses. I try to get my stuff online. This one guy I know makes really cool malas. PM Frizzer for more info.

Frizzer is a wanker.

I asked him about this about a week ago and he blew me off.

Like I'm not good enough for a Frizzer's Chocked Full 'o Raking malas or something.

-bf

YogaMama

Maybe it's because you call him a wanker.

buddhafoot

I meant that in the best possible way.

-bf

Jerbear

Hey BF,
You're a wanker too! I mean that in the most compassionate way, ya wanker!

federica

I think we can now stop wanking on forum....please....

Thank you.

I don't know what the connotations are in the USA, but they're very impolite in the UK....

Frizzer

buddhafoot wrote:

Frizzer is a w****r.

I asked him about this about a week ago and he blew me off.

Like I'm not good enough for a Frizzer's Chocked Full 'o Raking malas or something.

-bf

LOL! You pompous arse !

I went out specially to get your beads and I've been trying to find some jade for you but without much luck at the moment !!
I may have to substitue it with something else but rest assured it's in the process of being done (along with Airmech's - I haven't forgotten you chap! :wavey: ).

federica

*Gentlemen.... This is somewhat off-topic, wouldn't we all agree....?
Could the expletives now stop, please?*

Frizzer

You're right, sorry Fede.

buddhafoot

Frizzer wrote:

LOL! You pompous arse !

I went out specially to get your beads and I've been trying to find some jade for you but without much luck at the moment !!
I may have to substitue it with something else but rest assured it's in the process of being done (along with Airmech's - I haven't forgotten you chap! :wavey: ).

Being that this is a website based in America, you have to remember that the words used in this forum hardly mean anything over here!

I am a pompous poop-shoot.

Thanks man!

-bf

buddhafoot

Jerbear wrote:

Hey BF,
You're a w+anchor too! I mean that in the most compassionate way, ya w+anchor!

Oh stop ... you'll make a girl blush!

-bf

Knitwitch

buddhafoot wrote:

Being that this is a website based in America, you have to remember that the words used in this forum hardly mean anything over here!

I am a pompous poop-shoot.

Thanks man!

-bf

Very good point BF, of all the pitfalls of cultural differences, swearing has got to be one of the deepest.

My students often ask me about bad words and we get into a :hair: situation when I explain that what is the worst possible thing one can say in French is a word that I can use quite affectionately to my husband "You silly old bugger, what are you doing?".

Similarly a word they use as a mild expletive to indicate a stupid person is a word I wouldn't use unless I never intended to speak to that person again.

In Dutch the word "damned" is pretty strong and God Damned is appalling - but in the UK and USA they are used all the time.

The thing I find hard to grasp is that the concept itself is not bad - if someone says "effing" we know what they mean but somehow that is more acceptable. I knew a couple who said "S H one T" .... where are they coming from? Why couldn't they say Poo if they thought pronouncing the word was so offensive?

Words themselves don't hurt, it is the intention behind them .. some of the worst things people have said to me in my life have been couched in simple, polite English, not a swearword in sight.

I understand that this is a Buddhist forum and that Right Speech is an essential, so I am not commenting on how people should express themselves on here - not my place. I am just fascinated by the whole subject.

federica

English is one of the richest languages on this planet - and never underestimate Shakespeare's contribution to modern-day expression...

The language is internationally recognised: it is the original terminology for anything to do with computers or technology, and is the internationazlly accepted language for Flight Controllers everywhere....

I take KW's point with regard to the gain/loss in translation... what means one thing in one country, directly translated, may mean quite another elsewhere...
'Sonofabitch'! in the USA means something like 'well I'll be damned!' or 'Jeezwillyalookatthat!?!' In Italian - where 95% of programmes are UK or USA imports - (Italian domestic television is absolutely dire!) all programmes are either dubbed or subtitled - the phrase is literally translated into 'Figlio di una puttana!' which means "you are the offspring of a whore". This is a terrible insult to anyone... and not to be taken lightly....!

But my point is not necessarily to do with the subtle alteration of meaning or intention.

I have said it before, and I will say it again.
This forum has a theme. It is predominantly a Buddhist theme, and has been founded with the intention of providing a sound ground structure and basis for people who are interested in futhering their study, or simply satisfying their curiosity.

Now if this were a forum on sport, or cars, or politics, one would expect an enormous range of contributions couched in a variety of terms... some polite, some less so....

But it isn't. It's a forum dedicated to a specific spiritual, vocational religion/philosophy.
And with this, come certain guidelines.
We have certain strictures we make an Effort to adhere to... (Right Effort...remember...?)

There's a joke which states that more people than ever want to get to heaven....but they're just waiting for the Ten Commandments to be replaced by the Ten Suggestions....

The word 'sacrifice' is not one that is used often.
In fact, it means, to many, depriving ones' self of something that hitherto they clung to as precious.... people are asked to give their time, but not to sacrifice it... it sounds too harsh, doesn't it?

And that's a pity.
Because adhering to a specific set of guidelines or rules, means that at one point or another, you are going to have to give up - or sacrifice - a specific mode of behaviour which hitherto has been a normal every-day part of your personal "make-up".
I'm sure ZenMonk, Palzang and Elohim know what I mean....

The thing is, belonging to a forum such as this one, everyone must at one point, decide which active feature of themselves they would be willing to sacrifice, in order to comply with the Eightfold Path and Five precepts.

Buddhism changes us. Hopefully for the better. But it means having to co-operate with that change.

"How many psychologists does it take to change a light-bulb?

One - but the lightbulb has REALLY got to want to change....."

And there are those who will think I'm going over the top, or taking things too seriously, or just throwing my weight about.
But let me put this to you....
You may wish to use a certain quality of colourful language, because you feel that, well, it defines who you are, and that it's not so bad, and that it's not inappropriate...
I believe if you think this, you are wrong.
Nick expresses himself in extremely colourful terms a lot of the time. But I have never heard him use foul language in a conversation over the 'phone, or in a face-to-face discussion with a relative stranger, and never, never in a post on forum.
If some members were to find themselves in our home for an evening's watching of football, or a game of cards, I'd be dishing up the beers and coffee, surrounded by a rainbow of terms - and so what? That's ok, I understand the mechanics of a guys' night in...
But a new member, with a Christian background coming into this forum to gain a flavour of Buddhism, confronted with this level of language, would not be wrong to ask himself what the heck he'd stumbled upon.
And if the school rang you up saying your child was using inappropriate language in class, you'd sit up and take notice, wouldn't you....?

It doesn't define who you are.
it shows a disregard for those who might read the posts, it shows a disregard for other members, and it shows a disregard for your reasons for being here.

half-measures are not always adequate or appropriate.
You either do or you don't. There is no 'Try'.

sharpiegirl

Good posts, Federica!
back on topic...
I received this in a newsletter and thought it was a good one:

"Every musician plays scales. When you begin to study the piano, that's the first thing you learn, and you never stop playing scales. The finest concert pianists in the world still play scales. It's a basic skill that can't be allowed to get rusty. Every baseball player practices batting. It's the first thing you learn in Little League, and you never stop practicing. Every World Series game begins with batting practice. Basic skills must always remain sharp. Seated meditation is the arena in which the meditator practices his own fundamental skills. The game the meditator is playing is the experience of his own life, and the instrument upon which he plays is his own sensory apparatus. Even the most seasoned meditator continues to practice seated meditation, because it tunes and sharpens the basic mental skills he needs for his particular game. We must never forget, however, that seated meditation itself is not the game. It's the practice. The game in which those basic skills are to be applied is the rest of one's experiential existence. Meditation that is not applied to the daily living is sterile and limited." --Henepola Gunaratana, Mindfulness in Plain English

Frizzer

That's a great post Sharpiegirl.

I've read "Mindfulness in Plain English" (it was recommended by my Reiki teacher) and it is well worth people getting hold of a copy.

KnightofBuddha

When I first began meditation, I found it quite difficult and strange. I have always had a questioning and imaginative mind so I found it hard to concentrate at all when I started always thinking about the past or the future.

After much practice, I have learned to focus my thoughts and actions much better. Since I began meditation, my grades have gone from a 3.2 to a 4.0. I am better aware of things and do not worry as much as I used to especially after recently reading "Art of Happiness". I sleep better at night and have lost 10 pounds. I attribute all of the above to meditation and mindfulness.

I used to try and clear my mind of all thoughts. I surprisingly found this to be very difficult. Several months ago I tried something else; just being. And by just being, slowly, I can clear my mind.

federica

KoB... that's brilliant. Good for you, you sound as if you are really rooting yourself and have found your ground.
Well done you.

KnightofBuddha

Thank you, now to work on my pen chewing addiction....

Brigid

This has been good reading. When we discussing language and its usage I found myself agreeing with Knitwitch about intent. I've always bristled at censorship and PC laws and insisted that it is the intent behind the words that matters, not the words.

Then I read Fede's post and I understood the issue from a Buddhist perspective. It's true, there is a higher standard of speech in Buddhism, Right Speech. Fede, you reminded me that it's not a matter of censorship but a matter of our personally not allowing Wrong Speech to arise in the first place. Just like anger or any other afflictive thing.

Sharpiegirl, I must get that book. I really understand meditation better in terms like those. Thanks for posting that. I've been sitting here for 5 minutes thinking about it.

KOB, well done! And the fact that you're still in your teens means that you're going to be very well advanced by your 20's. I'm so happy for you! Doesn't it make you feel so grateful to have found the Dharma? What great gift it is!! I'm astounded everyday and I get chills thinking about how fortunate I am to have heard it.

Love,
Brigid

KnightofBuddha

Indeed I am grateful. I have never touched my toes standing up until now thanks to meditation and stretching.

I recall years ago laughing while watching a video about Korea. I thought how silly it was for orange robed guys to sit practicing self-discipline when this Buddha was some big fat guy with no apparent self control.

I must thank homophobes in my church and abroad who made me so disgusted by the hatred they pulled from the Bible that I went looking at other religions and found Buddhism.

buddhafoot

Just posting on this to pull it back up to the top of the forum - in case anyone wants to share their meditation experience/practice.

-bf

Jerbear

I must say one more thing about the speech used on here. Is it okay on the Gent's club forum? I mean the worst offenders were guys. And contextually, some men don't find it offensive. I must admit that I knew what it meant and failed to follow Right Speech, which is something that I openly admit that I struggle with.

Been struggling with my meditation practice by the way. As all know, for 2 weeks I swore that I was not ever going to get out of enough pain to be able to sit. Getting back to it has been a bit of a struggle. I may sit in my computer chair for a while as I need to get back to it. I miss the quiet it affords me the other 23.5 hours of the day. but even if it were 23.45 I would be happy. Any suggestions besides just sit?

And I must confess, I haven't been to temple in over a month! My teacher said that I must meditate in context of the sangha. Not sure what that meant. But then he also said that I was attached to my pain. I definitely don't know what that means! LOL! Off to therapy for today.

Brigid

Interesting post, Jerry.

I was wondering about the attachment I have to my condition after watching an episode of Grey's Anatomy last night. Natalie Cole played a woman with an inoperable brain tumor who describes it as a "good friend". The diagnoses and her prognosis (a few weeks left to live) had woken her up and rekindled her marriage. She says she had been sleepwalking for the last 15 years and that now she was "wide awake".

I hadn't been sleepwalking when I got injured...just occurred to me that this is not about meditation. I think I'll post a new thread in Buddhism 101 about health challenges and what they can do for us.

Sorry! :crazy:

Brigid

YogaMama

Not to get too off track, but I watch Grey's Anatomy as well, and loved that episode last night with Natalie Cole being "Attached" to her brain anurism (sp???). Grey's Anatomy is such a good show!

Brigid

Well, I'll post a new thread soon so we can talk about it if you like, Yogamama.
I really like that show as well. Jerry told me he dislikes medical shows, though. He finds them frustrating because they're so medically incorrect. I've often wondered what the professionals think about these things.

Brigid