Differences between Buddhist and Jain dharma

PremaSagar

In what was does Jaina Dharma differ with Buddhist Dharma ?

Are there points in which Jaina Dharma shows itself to be faulty ?

My first two threads didn't get many responses hopefully I get some more ideas here

PremaSagar

*ways

compassionate_warrior

Weren't the Jains ascetic in their practices, whereas the Buddha taught that asceticism was an extreme? Jainism AFAIK also believes in a soul, which Buddhism does not. I think it's likely Jainism influenced Buddhism, but only in certain respects. It's a good topic.

Jeffrey

Are you a student Prema?

PremaSagar

Are you a student Prema?

Hi Jeffrey !
:wave:
I have always considered myself to be a student of whatever wisdom there is available. I am a Buddhist but I try to keep an open mind and learn from different traditions as well. Whether that wisdom comes from Kahlil Gibran or Osho if it helps me achieve enlightenment I keep it in mind. In that sense I am a student.

Jeffrey

Hi, Prema. I am afraid I am not much of a resource regarding Jainism. I do know that they are VERY strict about not killing living things. I think they are trying to be very pure. Whereas a buddhist is using purity to bring peace to their meditation and accept the world for what it is I guess.

Have you tried wikipedia? buddhism and Jainism

PremaSagar

Haven't read that article but I'll bookmark it

taiyaki

imagine if you wore sunglasses.
the sunglasses have a yellow tint.
in buddhism the sunglasses are taken off.
such sunglasses was buddhism, jainism, all "isms".

directly with our eyes we see the world. NAKED. JUST AS IT IS.

this is the main difference between buddhism and all religions. in the end buddhism is discarded because even buddhism gets in the way of seeing reality as it is.

no more sunglasses, just these eyes.

PremaSagar

Sounds Zen... :om:

PremaSagar

Weren't the Jains ascetic in their practices, whereas the Buddha taught that asceticism was an extreme? Jainism AFAIK also believes in a soul, which Buddhism does not. I think it's likely Jainism influenced Buddhism, but only in certain respects. It's a good topic.

Yes that is true they also have a different cosmology

Cinorjer

In practice and as understood by many Buddhists, there is no real difference.

Yes, Jainism starts with a soul or atman and considers karma to be a physical force acting on this soul, and Buddhists claim we don't believe in souls and karma is what we do, not the moral consequence. The reality is, most Buddhists still believe exactly the same as the Jainists: that "I" am reincarnated and punished or rewarded according to a cosmic balance sheet of good and bad karma. So, as practiced, no difference.

And yes, you can point to sutras and teachings in Buddhism that say there is no soul or unique essence that makes up the self, but most Buddhists don't really believe that. If a Buddhist believes in past lives and future reincarnations, then they believe in some sort of soul, no matter what verbal knots they tie themselves into in an effort to excuse it. Reincarnation means something unique to you survives death, and just because you refuse to call it a soul doesn't mean it's not what everyone else calls it.

I am not trying to trot out the old argument that reincarnation doesn't exist, only pointing out that I think the core beliefs and practices of the two religions are pretty much the same, only we use a different language.

Dakini

And yes, you can point to sutras and teachings in Buddhism that say there is no soul or unique essence that makes up the self, but most Buddhists don't really believe that. If a Buddhist believes in past lives and future reincarnations, then they believe in some sort of soul, no matter what verbal knots they tie themselves into in an effort to excuse it. I think the core beliefs and practices of the two religions are pretty much the same, only we use a different language.

Thanks for this, Cinorjer. But you'd be surprised at how people bristle at the idea that in Buddhism the business about "very subtle miind" or "seed consciousness" being mainly a semantic game to differentiate it from soul. Maybe what's really going on in Asian Buddhists' beliefs in this regard is that saying it's the same "I" that gets rebornand suffers karmic punishment (or rewards), is just a mental shorthand for saying "my seed consciousness". Either that, or pre-Buddhist folk beliefs are intruding into Buddhism.

Cinorjer

Probably a little of both.

If people don't want to call the seed consciousness or whatever an atman or soul, it's fine with me. I do see why people would object it's not the same. I suppose it differentiates between an eternal, unchanging ghost-like spirit and the more subtle evolving consciousness.

Dakini

Yes, a fine line (though the soul is also evolving, is it not? Otherwise, what's the point in putting up with all this earthly hooey?) Some would say: splitting hairs. Others would say: the split hairs make all the difference. The devil is in the details. So to speak.

SattvaPaul

I once saw some documentary (might have been "The Unmistaken Child") and there was a group of some sort of (lay) Jain pilgrims in India. They sort of dismissed Buddhists as being not strict enough and far too lax :hair:

Dakini

Yeah, the Jains were hard-core. They probably don't approve of the Buddha's Middle Way. But when you look at their beliefs, it seems clear that Buddhism has Jain roots.

SattvaPaul

I wouldn't say roots, but there are many similarities. Buddha and Mahavira were contemporaries. I think in some suttas the Buddha talks about their beliefs even.

MindGate

Well, I'll tell you what I learned in my World Religions class.

Jains are EXTREME ascetics. They can't start kick over a stone (literally) without fear of killing something. They can't start fires, can't openly breathe, and some even went naked. There are so many rules that would hinder any form of a normal lifestyle from happening.

taiyaki

only in india, only in india hahaha