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Buddhism in the UK
I'm not a practising buddhist... yet.
I'm definitely interested though and currently wading my way through inumerous tomes and websites (not to mention the huge amount of information on these boards!:eek2: ) in an effort to educate myself and decide what's right for me.
My local buddhist centre is an FWBO (Friends of the Western Buddhist Order) centre and I just came across an article about FWBO, SGI-UK and the UK New Kadampa Tradition that might be of interest to others so I thought I'd post a link
Hope it's useful to someone.....
Sas
I'm definitely interested though and currently wading my way through inumerous tomes and websites (not to mention the huge amount of information on these boards!:eek2: ) in an effort to educate myself and decide what's right for me.
My local buddhist centre is an FWBO (Friends of the Western Buddhist Order) centre and I just came across an article about FWBO, SGI-UK and the UK New Kadampa Tradition that might be of interest to others so I thought I'd post a link
Hope it's useful to someone.....
Sas
0
Comments
The link!
Sas *edging away hoping no-one noticed!*
Do you meditate at all?
-bf
Well... no... I haven't ... yet.
I don't know why really. I'm thinking TOO much, I know
I definitely need to!
Sas
I have kind of played at it, and tried it now and then tentatively... but after discussing it with a fellow forum member, I decided - 'Do or 'do not' - there is no 'Try'.
I recommend it.
"When 900 years you reach, look as good, you will not."
-- Yoda
You're making it sound like using one's virginity.
If you do decide to start, MrsK, I can almost promise you it will not cause any unexpected pregnancies...
-bf
What the hell does "using one's virginity" mean?
What knitwit wrote that?!!??!!?
Shouldn't it have been, "losing one's virginity"?
Yes... I believe so.
Cane the idiot that screwed that post up.
-bf
I'm on hubby's laptop and blame that entirely for any typos, grammatical errors or downright stupidity
Although i'd never stoop so far as "using one's virginity" even if tying (hmmm isn't there a p in there somewhere?!) with mmy nose
Seriously though, yes I am very inspired to wade in and start meditating, but I want to make sure my mind is ready and that I don't just TRY it when I should be DOing it.... there's that litte, pointy eared bloke again
Sas
PS Does Knitwitch get blamed for everything around here?
Zen Meditation - The Seat of Enlightenment
Thanks a lot genryu, that's a great lnk, very clear
I'll give it a try tomorrow - too sleepy now
Sas
Thank you, Ma'am!
May I have another?
-bf
I could not help but notice that on your link there was plenty of info on the Dark side of the force. There was one sentance that realLy disturbed me "Geshe Kelsang (NKT) is regarded by his followers as the Third Buddha ".
The NKT is cult and as really little to do with Buddhism. I advise you to go and visit their local statue factory and halls of residence. You will find people who have had their minds twisted and who are being exploited by their own movement.
Please be very careful.
Best, HH
Thanks for your concern HH.
That's the reason I posted the link to the article - it's pretty negative about all 3: NKT, FWBO & SGI-UK and their influence on the British view of buddhism - I thought it might be helpful to instill caution in other noobs like me
Sas
But still, the article in the link and ZM’s comments struck a chord with me. I’m certainly not qualified to talk much about “a deeper level” but I can say that I think I’ve learned more on this forum (thank you all) and from reading. The FWBO does give the impression that it is Buddhism in the UK, that its approach has created a unique synthesis making everyone else redundant. Though I suppose I wouldn’t expect a supermarket to keep reminding me of the existence of its competitors. But when I started to read this forum, and look elsewhere, I was actually stunned to learn of the range of Buddhist practice to be found in the “West” generally, and even in the UK. And yes, I do find that the prevailing ethos at the FWBO is, in a very gentle, nice way, not very accommodating of family commitments. Which I have, and which may be attachments, but which I’m not about to ignore because I’m trying to follow the dharma – besides which, wouldn’t wanting to be free of them to concentrate on my “spiritual” “growth” also be an attachment?
But the problem for me in Norfolk (for those who don’t know it, Norfolk folk are proud to say we are “On the road to nowhere”) is where does one find other groups / teachers? The all knowing Google hasn’t turned up a lot for once.
Martin.
Click on the "local groups" link.
Give them a try, I attend the Brighton group.
Cheers,
Adrian
Just spotted this link regarding UK Zen groups IZAUK
I notice there is one in Norwich.
Maybe ZM or anyone else can tell us if they know of this organisation?
Sas
Since then I think that Soto Shu (Soto School) in Japan have stepped in and tried to legitimize the group but there were concerns as to their general direction, their extreme emphasis on posture - I mean to the extent of putting a ruler against peoples backs to make sure they were rigidly straight - which is really the antithises of good posture in Zen - and other concerns centered around their finances and/or the way they were raising funds. In other words, personally I wouldn't touch 'em.
Trust me to weed em out :buck:
Well, now we know, thanks ZM
Sas
Mmm why am I thinking cult. This is just the wacko bullshit I kick against. I don't think I could be a good buddhist because I can help but want to fire bomb the HQ.
I want you to appreciate I am being mindful and measured in my response.
Now back to the revolution of ones mind.
HH
Thank you all. I shall contact the Norwich Soto Zen (Throssle Hole affiliated) group.
Martin.
Being a 'good' Buddhist doesn't mean that a person doesn't feel angry at abuses and corruption. What it does mean is that they are mindful of being angry but are not driven by that anger. Anger, if allowed to transmute becomes what's called in Zen - Great Angry Determination - and that drives practice and realization. There's no realization without it.
Feeling anger is okay. See it for what it is and let it run it's course in your mind.
or
Feeling anger is okay - but let it pass.
or
Feeling anger is okay and "the anger" will run it's course - but!, acting upon anger is wrong.
-bf
HH
I'd say that feeling anger is okay - adding anything extra to that is just that - something extra. Experience it (if you can) in your body before it overwhelms you. Practice is not about becoming a person who's never angry, or someone who's unemotional, but a person who's not completely surprised by any emotion, and not driven by emotion at the expense of reason and intuition. So - not clinging, not denying, not repressing, not trying to use any technique to get rid of the anger. And sometimes, anger is the appropriate response - but it's also one of the hardest emotions to work with, as you know, precisely because it's so all consuming. I think working with anger alone gives us a lifelong practice, at least it does for me.
There's nothing wrong with being angry, but it just needs to be recognised, accepted, acknowleged and allowed to rise, like a wave, and then die down, like a wave....
two things I know...
Anger is like the hot coal we pick up to hurl at the cause or seat of our anger... But it always burns us first....It damages and pains us before we can express it....
And I, personally sincerely give myself a limit, (ever, constantly and over time, gradually decreasing) for the duration of my Anger. I accommodate it, recognise it, give it house-room - but then it's out of here. Enough.
My Life is too precious to spend mad....
"Every Minute you spend angry is 60 seconds in which you could have been having a great time...!"
and
"It's not a good idea to lose your temper frequently....But it's fine to mislay it once in a while - !!"
To illustrate what I'm saying I'll use a common source of everyday anger; frustration. Sometimes I get very frustrated with my computer to the point of great anger. Once the big anger has arisen I get confused and even more angry just for being angry and losing control and then I feel guilty for being angry which makes me angrier and it just feeds off itself. Like violence breeding violence.
But when it comes to the computer I found my antidote, which is gratitude. As soon as I switch from frustration at my computer to the realization that I'm being a spoiled rotten, rich little brat for getting mad at something that I should be extremely grateful for, I feel foolish and I start laughing at myself. The first time I realized how spoilled I was behaving for getting so angry over my computer and started laughing at myself, the anger vanished like a puff of smoke and was replaced with great relief. It took practice but now whenever something goes wrong with the computer I immediately start laughing at my foolish spoilt self and anger doesn't arise. And this works with every modern convenience we are so fortunate to enjoy. Or relationships we're so fortunate to have. Gratitude is a great antidote for anger. Now I just have to practice it with people, especially my folks 'cuz they can turn me into a screaming banshee in a matter of seconds!! LOL! (Well, not screaming but angry, very, very angry.)
Brigid
Ultimately, everything is laid aside as temporary and illusory... But you have to "get it"....
It's a matter of 'Work-in-progress'....
Your words are extremely meaningful Brigid, but even you admit, that for all their Wisdom and Clarity, Common-Sense and Logic, you too haven't quite 'got it'... you too, are still 'work-in-progress'... so we just meet all these impostors, treat them just the same, and work through it....
It is difficult to lay it all aside. Yet it is so Simple.
Anger is neither bad nor good. Cutting it off, repressing it, trying to avoid or dissapate it - all of these somehow miss the point. If we don't see it because it never arises (or we think it doesn't arise), we don't have a chance to see it for what it is, which is energy. So my question would be, why avoid something that's a perfectly natural human emotion?
I find it quite frequent that some Buddhists seem to believe that in order to achieve Enlightenment, we have to shed every vestige of what it means to be a Human being... we have to become completely transformed and know only the 'Positive' Emotions (Compassion, Kindness, Love, Politeness...) But that all the 'Negative' Traits must be eliminated and anihilated.... And if I have given that impression in my post (I can see I might have done) that's not what I meant.
THis is why I made a loose reference to Kipling's Poem, "If"...
"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two Impostors just the same....."
In other words, for me, "Good" and "Bad" are as existent as each other... as relevant and as inconsequential, as dependent on us for their existence, as dependent on us for their importance..... They just are. We may indulge in them, but they come and go... and so what.....?
I cannot believe for one moment that the Buddha spent his entire Enlightened Life devoid of Humour..... He surely manifested all and any emotions he had always experienced. He just attached no importance or relevance to them.
I guess....
In the ultimate sense, no, anger is neither bad nor good. But it's expression leads to negative results. I don't see a possibility in Samsara of never seeing anger. Children have temper tantrums even before they can walk and talk. It is a perfectly natural human emotion but I don't see the benefit of seeing it for what it is, energy, more than once when life is so short and anger has such negative consequences. Other than the chance to see it for what it is, what other positive things can we do with anger on a purely practical level? If we listed all the pros of anger and all the cons I think the cons would far outweigh the pros. In every rebirth we will be confronted with our own anger and have the chance to look at it dispassionately as it really is. But then what? Isn't life too short to be spending time on anger?
I get the feeling that you may not believe that it's possible to stop anger from arising in the first place. Is that a fair assessment?
Brigid
it's a question of what you do with it.
I think you're missing my point. I'm talking about anger as an afflictive emotion that causes trouble. I'm talking on a practical level rather than about the values we place on "Good" and "Bad". And I don't know how we got to the Buddha being humourless. LOL!
But I'm sure I'm not making myself clear enough so I'll fall back on the words of HH the Dalai Lama because he expresses it better than I ever could.
In his introduction to "How to Practice: The Way to a Meaningful Life", he writes:
"When I was only fifteen, the Chinese Communists invaded eastern Tibet, and within a year the Tibetan government had decided that I should direct Tibet's affairs of state."
He goes on to describe how difficult a time it was and continues:
"My spiritual practice gave me an outlook that made it possible to keep searching for solutions without losing sight of the fact that we are all humans led astray by wrong ideas and united by common bonds, ready for improvement.
This has taught me that the perspectives of compassion, calm, and insight are essential to daily life and must be cultivated in daily practice. Trouble is bound to come, so cultivating the right attitude is crucial. Anger diminishes our power to distinguish right from wrong, and this ability is one of the highest human attributes. If it is lost, we are lost. Sometimes it is necessary to respond strongly, but this can be done without anger. Anger is not necessary. It has no value."
In chapter 3, "Discovering How Trouble Starts and Stops", he heads the first part "The Second Noble Truth: Sources of Suffering" and he writes:
"After identifying the scope of suffering, we need to discover its sources, which are twofold: afflictive, or counterproductive, emotions and contaminated karmas.
Afflictive Emotions
Since afflictive emotions contaminate karmas, or actions, I will discuss them first. There are two classes of afflictive emotions-one that is better expressed and the other that is better not expressed. An example of the former is a terrible fear from the past that becomes fixed in the mind. In this case, it is definitely beneficial to let your feelings out and discuss the incident. (He goes on to tell a story form his childhood.)
It is better to talk about such things that occur only once, whereas the other class of counterproductive emotions-which include such feelings as lust, hatred, enmity, jealousy, and belligerence-should not be expressed; they become more and more frequent. Expressing them tends to make them stronger and more prevalent. It is better to reflect on the disadvantages of engaging in such emotions and to try to displace them with feelings of satisfaction and love. We should forcefully overcome negative emotions when they appear, but it would be even better to find ways to prevent them in the first place."
I consider anger to be a negative emotion that contaminates actions (not to mention wreaks havoc on the human heart) and since life is so short and trouble is not in short supply, I think replacing anger with more helpful emotions is necessary.
Brigid
Which is exactly my point in the last post I made.
If we indulge in anger it contaminates our actions but here you're saying that doesn't matter. I'm not quite sure what you're saying.
Brigid
Hyper-analysis cause parlysis.
Brigid
The Dalai Lama may believe that anger is unecessary and 'has no value', but then nor does any other emotion apart from what we attribute to it and all emotions are indeed necessary. This is not to say that one should indulge something that hurts oneself and others, far from it, but that we either get to the root of the anger before it becomes an emotion, which is what I would equate with your 'stopping it arising', or, once it has arisen, that we learn to have a straightforward way of working with it. I think there are two different levels of working with anger - the first is to see the harm it can do and try to contain and channel that, the second is to go to the source of anger and learn to transmute it, which in Buddhism is called 'The Buddha's Lion's Roar' - the clear and unequivocal acknowledgement that all states, conditions and emotions are part of the path. Trungpa Rinpoche in speaking of the Vajrayana approach to anger, other emotions and the things that are normally rejected as not being 'spiritual' put it this way,
"It is not a question of 'getting there' or 'being there'; the Tantric tradition speaks of being here. It speaks of transmutation and the analogy of alchemistic practice is used a great deal. For example, the existence of lead is not rejected but lead is transmuted into gold. You do not have to change its metallic quality at all; you must simply transmute it" -
Chogyam Trungpa, Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism.
This might be of interest:
The Lion's Roar - Transmuting Emotions
And that's a wonderful link, Genryu. It's perfect for what I was talking about. I've saved it because I'm going to use it a lot.
Thanks!
Brigid
That's cleared that up then hasn't it?