Proving that prayer is superstition.

DaltheJigsaw

For details: http://WhyWontGodHealAmputees.com

By watching this short video, you will be able to prove to yourself that the belief in prayer is a superstition. Every "answered prayer" is a coincidence, nothing more. For more information, please visit http://WhyWontGodHealAmputees.com.

MindGate

Well of course.

compassionate_warrior

:rolleyes: I'm more interested in the studies that have been done showing that prayer does have an effect. I think I'll pass on this video.

zombiegirl

the top comment from the video:

"The cure rate and mortality rate of cancer are statistically the same for Christians who pray for healing and non Christian who don't pray.Ask your doctor or any oncologist to find out yourself.
I am not against praying but I would not expect any different result.I think praying for others is compassionate action,showing love,caring and good wishes.
I don.t want any one praying for me but I sincerely thank them if they told me that they prayed for me."

i agree with this. it's all about what you put your energy into.

Floating_Abu

Praying is magical ..

compassionate_warrior

I think it was a study Dr. Larry Dossey did, a double-blind study, that showed that patients who were prayed for, and didn't know they were being prayed for, recovered more quickly from surgery and had fewer complications. There have been no miracle cures from prayer that I know of, especially in the context of a study.

TreeLuvr87

Prayer is definitely superstitious, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't work. I believe that it won't "work" to gather the results and desires you're praying for, and sadly, a lot of people seem to believe they should be praying for what they want. When I pray, I'm just sending out love. I don't pray to anyone but the energy that I consider to be Buddha-nature. So... it "works" because it brings me peace in those moments, keeps my heart opening up with compassion, and helps with my lovingkindness and other meditations. I don't pray for any particular outcome, because I have faith that things will unfold in an appropriate way to maintain balance in our lives.

I used to think that anytime someone said, "I'll pray for you," that they were Christian. But I'm meeting more and more people who pray but not to any deity or god - and these people are mostly the shining, loving people I want to surround myself with. Taking a few minutes to pray at the end of the day, throwing up a few names that I think could use a little extra love, is a great technique for maintaining my own emotional health.

Tosh

Prayer doesn't have to be to some 'magic man'. Prayer can get you into a 'correct' psychological frame of mind. For example, I'm in A.A., and before I meet up with a sponsee (an alcoholic I'm guiding through the 12 Steps), I'll do a simple prayer that I can be of some help to the man.

It kinda reminds me what my purpose is, and not to try and look smart, just because I know more about recovery.

Prayer works, definitely, but it depends on what your intention of it is for; but isn't that the case with most things? Intention is what matters?

zombiegirl

I think it was a study Dr. Larry Dossey did, a double-blind study, that showed that patients who were prayed for, and didn't know they were being prayed for, recovered more quickly from surgery and had fewer complications. There have been no miracle cures from prayer that I know of, especially in the context of a study.

or how about the study in washington dc where they lowered crime by 20% through prayer/meditation? link here. study here.

A study published in the peer-reviewed journal Social Indicators Research reports on one of the most dramatic sociological experiments ever undertaken. Researchers predicted in advance that the calming influence of group meditation practice could reduce violent crime by over 20 percent in Washington, D.C., during an 8-week period in the summer of 1993.

In fact, the findings later showed that the rate of violent crime--which included assaults, murders, and rapes--decreased by 23 percent during the June 7 to July 30 experimental period. The odds of this result occurring by chance are less than 2 in 1 billion. Rigorous statistical analyses ruled out an extensive list of alternative explanations, according to John Hagelin, lead author of the study and director of the Institute of Science, Technology and Public Policy at Maharishi University of Management in Fairfield, Iowa.

Dakini

Fascinating, ZG! I've heard this sort of thing from Buddhist monks. That prayers can influence group or societal behavior. At least someone's open-minded enough to actually do studies.

MindGate

Correlation does not mean causation.

Prayer has never been proven. There has been coincidences, but correlation does not prove causation. Because in a few studies (of the hundreds that were done) people healed faster "due to prayer" means nothing in scientific terms.

Prayer changes mental states, sure, but it does nothing magical. Sorry.

compassionate_warrior

"of the hundreds that were done"? Hundreds of prayer studies have been done?

What was different about Dossey's study is that it was a "scientific" double-blind study run by MD's.

Floating_Abu

There is 'magic' but how could the mind talk about?

How could the mind ever know what is beyond its capability? :clap:

Floating_Abu

Ajahn Munindo -



So I think prayer does have an important place in Theravada Buddhism. This Way is about getting to know the nature of our own being, so that we’re at one with our hearts and attentive to its truest longings. The heart longs to return to its original condition of purity. To become more conscious of that dimension of our heart is an important point of practice. The reflections and ritual verses of contemplations that we all recite together in the monastery are a safe place to start to pray. Then, if we feel inclined, we can begin to say our own words. What does your heart want to say?

When we kneel before the shrine – that which symbolises perfect wisdom, perfect compassion and perfect freedom for us – and we express our good wishes for all beings – the bronze statue, beautiful and serene as it is, is not listening to us. We are not asking the Buddha to grant us any favours. Rather, beholding an image of the Buddha helps configure the ‘divine principle’ in our minds and creates the appropriate inner space – a sacred place – in which we feel totally free to speak and in which we can feel perfectly received.

There is a touching passage in One Dharma by Joseph Goldstein. He refers to an interview with Mother Theresa, in which the interviewer asks:
“When you pray what do you say to God?”
“I don’t say anything,” she said. “I just listen.”
“Well, what does God say to you?”
“God just listens.”
There was a pause in the interview, and she added, “…and if you don’t understand that, I am afraid I can’t help you.”

That’s the essence of it. We all have within us the faculty of intuition, which, if we listen to it, can guide us towards our true home, where we trust that unshakeable peace lies. Our hearts already know the Way. Prayer and devotion put us in touch with the heart and its natural wisdom, allowing it to gently lead us on that journey.

Prayer and Devotion

MindGate

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Dandelion

I can't quite put my finger on WHY.... but I found this youtube hilarious! Don't get me wrong, I don't consider praying hilarious at all. I think it might have been the 'dead pan' manner in which this youtube comes across. It's become a caricature of itself! Anyone else know what I mean?!
I don't think this youtube shows that prayer is useless. I don't think that a superstition is necessarily 'wrong' either. But, I enjoyed the youtube non the less

Dakini

I didn't watch the UTube. But I think this topic contradicts Leon's NDE-is-real thread. So make up your mind which side of the fence you want to sit on, Leon. I don't like this side of the fence, just my 2 cents. Not that I'm into prayer, but I'm interested in what is considered paranormal stuff. I think the line between "superstition" and reality is beginning to blur, thanks to advances in science and quantum theory.

MindGate

@Dakini

Now I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Leon just posts interesting articles/videos to simply share with us and start a discussion. He doesn't have to agree with them, or disagree with them - he just posts them if he finds them interesting. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Leon.

Floating_Abu

I don't take them too seriously myself

Dakini

You're right, MG. Good observation. This one just caught me by surprise, somehow, because all of Leon's other articles and videos on anything paranormal,or meditation, or whatever, is on the positive proof side. Sorry if I was harsh, Leon. I love your NDE thread, though.