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The shocking truth about the crackdown on Occupy - Article by Naomi Wolf on the Guardian

Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran
edited November 2011 in Buddhism Today
The violent police assaults across the US are no coincidence. Occupy has touched the third rail of our political class's venality

image
Occupy Wall Street protester Brandon Watts lies injured on the ground after clashes with police over the eviction of OWS from Zuccotti Park. Photograph: Allison Joyce/Getty Images

US citizens of all political persuasions are still reeling from images of unparallelled police brutality in a coordinated crackdown against peaceful OWS protesters in cities across the nation this past week. An elderly woman was pepper-sprayed in the face; the scene of unresisting, supine students at UC Davis being pepper-sprayed by phalanxes of riot police went viral online; images proliferated of young women – targeted seemingly for their gender – screaming, dragged by the hair by police in riot gear; and the pictures of a young man, stunned and bleeding profusely from the head, emerged in the record of the middle-of-the-night clearing of Zuccotti Park.

But just when Americans thought we had the picture – was this crazy police and mayoral overkill, on a municipal level, in many different cities? – the picture darkened. The National Union of Journalists and the Committee to Protect Journalists issued a Freedom of Information Act request to investigate possible federal involvement with law enforcement practices that appeared to target journalists. The New York Times reported that "New York cops have arrested, punched, whacked, shoved to the ground and tossed a barrier at reporters and photographers" covering protests. Reporters were asked by NYPD to raise their hands to prove they had credentials: when many dutifully did so, they were taken, upon threat of arrest, away from the story they were covering, and penned far from the site in which the news was unfolding. Other reporters wearing press passes were arrested and roughed up by cops, after being – falsely – informed by police that "It is illegal to take pictures on the sidewalk."

In New York, a state supreme court justice and a New York City council member were beaten up; in Berkeley, California, one of our greatest national poets, Robert Hass, was beaten with batons. The picture darkened still further when Wonkette and Washingtonsblog.com reported that the Mayor of Oakland acknowledged that the Department of Homeland Security had participated in an 18-city mayor conference call advising mayors on "how to suppress" Occupy protests.

To Europeans, the enormity of this breach may not be obvious at first. Our system of government prohibits the creation of a federalised police force, and forbids federal or militarised involvement in municipal peacekeeping.

I noticed that rightwing pundits and politicians on the TV shows on which I was appearing were all on-message against OWS. Journalist Chris Hayes reported on a leaked memo that revealed lobbyists vying for an $850,000 contract to smear Occupy. Message coordination of this kind is impossible without a full-court press at the top. This was clearly not simply a case of a freaked-out mayors', city-by-city municipal overreaction against mess in the parks and cranky campers. As the puzzle pieces fit together, they began to show coordination against OWS at the highest national levels.


Article continues here: Guardian
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Comments


  • US citizens of all political persuasions are still reeling from images of unparallelled police brutality in a coordinated crackdown against peaceful OWS protesters in cities across the nation this past week.
    How is this any different from Tian An Men Square? We read this word "crackdown" so often in the context of China: crackdowns against Tibetan monasteries, a crackdown against public protest, a crackdown against Uighur nationalists. Now the US is the one cracking down on its own citizens. What does this say to the world about the US?

  • From some of the comments:

    When they came for the Jews I did not stand up because I was not a Jew
    When they came for the Communists, I did not stand up because I was not a Communist.
    When they came for the Homosexuals, I did not stand up because I was not a Homosexual.
    And when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up.
  • Another comment:

    From democracynow.org; an interview with the former Police Chief of Seattle.

    http://www.democracynow.org/2011/11/17/paramilitary_policing_of_occupy_wall_street
  • That's a good article by DemocracyNow. And it looks like an important book Seattle's former police chief wrote: "Breaking Rank: A Top Cop's Expose of the Dark Side of American Policing".

    What I'm wondering is where are the orders for this violent treatment of protesters coming from? The article by Naomi Klein says the Dept. of Homeland Security is providing strategic advice and funding to local police departments, and that the DHS takes orders from the President. But it also says Obama was out of the US at the time that the latest crackdown happened. So who is giving the orders? It's hard to believe this would be an Obama policy. So is it a Congressional committee that might be pulling the strings? This needs to be investigated and exposed.
  • edited November 2011
    Strange, but I thought the US used to be all about the right to peaceful protest. That's what used to differentiate us from totalitarian regimes. Freedom of speech. Does anyone remember that? Isn't that in the Constitution? Freedom of assembly? Think of all the protests nationwide during the Vietnam war. Only the violent ones incurred police action, unless I'm forgetting something. Only if you were Black and in the South, marching for Civil Rights, did they spray you with anything, and even then it was with water hoses, not pepper spray. What's happened to this country?

    And the article says journalists were threatened, and prevented from doing their work. First it was the covert censorship of Bush II, now overt censorship. What next, a mafia that hunts down journalists, like with Anna Politkovskaya in Russia?

    Blue Meanies have been spotted on this very forum! :eek:
  • IronRabbitIronRabbit Veteran
    edited December 2011
    Why are the tactics used by trained law enforcement officers (thugs with badges) so shocking? Rioters and demonstrators have been "controlled" or "dispersed" with non lethal weapons including tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, and electric tasers since the 1980's. In some cases, riot squads may also use Long Range Acoustic Devices, water cannons, armoured fighting vehicles, police dogs or mounted police on horses. This isn't new stuff. There are not rabid administrators somewhere foaming at the mouth, demanding peaceful hipsters protesting be fucked up by the police. This is the way things have been happening for a long time. There should be a new organization monitoring this stuff called "Democracy-Never".

    Not to say injured, frightened and traumatized demonstrators don't deserve sympathy - but - nobody died.... Look at Syria, China, Tibet, Egypt, Iran...

    People died for protesting.

    Doesn't matter that we are not talking about democratic governments - we need to wake up to the shocking truth that there is no democracy in the U.S.A.!!!

    This is a capitalist police state - unequivocally.

    Taxes pay for the maintenance and training of police - national guard - army - nayy - air force - marines....and they are deployed and expected to perform their duty....without question - without philosophy - without empathy -without explanation. Is it any wonder the machines our system creates (thugs with badges and thugs as soldiers) have such a high rate of suicide? Can anyone imagine the horror if the atrocities that have been visited on Iraqi citizens by U.S. troops were done by police? (well, they have now haven't they?) And the argument that soldiers are in a combat zone holds no water - ied's provide no "field of fire" for a soldier enraged by the deaths of his comrades by booby traps - anyone in the way gets mowed down. It happens.

    The concepts of "enemy" and "probable cause" have each and every one of us behind the eight ball. Calling for equilateral redistribution of wealth by "occupying" as it has been done is an invitation for mayhem - and whining about kinder gentler dispersal tactics is as futile as expecting Obama (sorry to all who had hope in change - you were duped) to start doling out well paid jobs or Wall Street to begin paying dividends to people in tents on the lawn of city hall.

    Protesting in a "circus" atmosphere is one way to begin the momentum of a movement - but realistically - it should be no surprise that the sheriff kicks the clowns.......it's his job....

    And speaking of clowns, journalists are simply operating without the big red noses and floppy shoes - the U.S. media is largely controlled and censured by the gub-mint - and we hear what they allow....

    This testament of basic truth can garner nothing but vilification and it is expected - so fire away - but consider if there is truth herein.....

  • nice post rabbit
  • Have you read the article by Klein, Rabbit? It may be the police's job to disperse protesters--I think that's debatable in peaceful proteests. But using excessive means is beyond a routine dispersal. And there appears to be a covert federalizing of local police forces, which is irregular and needs to be exposed. There was an incident on a university campus, in which police forcibly dispersed students, and that's very unusual. I've worked at a university, police usually don't interfere with protests. So something is definitely afoot, something has changed, and the public has a right to know what's going on and why.

    I think this article, or another one posted earlier, said pepper spray has not been used in the past. Pepper spray use is, in fact, something new. And just because dogs were used on African Americans in Civil Rights protests doesn't mean that's "ho hum, business as usual". To my knowledge dogs have never been used on anyone else, nor have they been used after the incidents in the Civil Rights movement. That's exactly why it was so shocking at the time. If you have info that supports your view that using pepper spray and dogs to disperse crowds is routine, please post it.

    As I understand it, riot squads would not be applicable to a peaceful protest, that's why they're called "riot" squads. They're for riots.

    Obama used to speak about implementing wealth redistribution policies (restoring an equitable tax policy), and no one pepper sprayed him. These are normal topics for public discourse. If we pretend they're not, then we're missing the bigger picture--that there's been a major shift in how public protest and discourse is handled. Then we miss the behind-the-scenes story that Klein is trying to bring to light.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited December 2011
    Nice post Dakini

    When I was a student when U of Michigan ('98?)was undefeated and beat Ohio State the students stormed the field and took down the goalpost. There was a ring of police and some students got beaten and taken to jail. They did use tear gas. The front people were being pushed by the back people and they were being gased. I actually stormed the field and the police moved at me but I left their jockstrap on the ground with quick lateral cuts shake and baked em :)
  • SileSile Veteran
    edited December 2011
    How is this any different from Tian An Men Square?"

    For starters, there aren't 241 dead and 7,000 wounded.

    Those are the Chinese government's figures; the Chinese Red Cross reported 2600 killed, NATO put the count at 7000 dead, and the official Soviet final count is 10,000 dead.

  • It's not the message, but the unlawful means of delivering. If you go into a situation looking for a fight, you usually find one.
  • Telly, what unlawful means are you referring to? The police use of pepper spray? Most, if not all (I haven't been keeping track) of the protests have been peaceful. Peaceful protests usually aren't about looking for a fight. They're about making a statement and being heard.

    I don't know about football games, Jeffrey. I was referring to organized (pre-planned) marches or sit-ins that students may carry out for whatever their cause may be.

  • Blocking traffic and/or camping in a public space is disorderly and unlawful if the police ask you to clear the passage.

    When the police advise you that forceful action will be taken if you do not move, and you snub your nose at them, that is looking for a fight in my opinion. What was cut out of the beginning of most of the pepper spray videos were the police informing each person, individually, that they would be removed by force if they did not move.

    Again, it is not about the message, but how it is being delivered.

    I am not advocating for the use of pepper spray, the police could have cleared the area by lifting each individual... they had enough police there to do that... my point is that many OWS are looking for a fight that they can put on video thinking that it will help the cause. I personally believe it hurts the cause


  • I doubt anyone is willing to be pepper sprayed for a video story. Well if so they wouldn't do it twice!
  • I haven't heard about blocking traffic. Protesters usually do hope to get on TV, they usually expect to be carried away, but they don't expect pepper spray, dogs, or fire hoses.
  • As long as no bullets fly, we should all be pretty grateful. In America, the right course of action after being pepper sprayed, imho, would be to sue. If the suit holds up, it could change policy for the better. If it doesn't, all needs to be examined and re-examined to determine the next step.

    I have sympathies on both sides--if I or a loved one were sprayed, I'd likely feel that assault deeper in my soul, and maybe have a greater sense of wrongness about it. At the same time, if people are blocking lanes, heaven forbid an ambulance needs to pass, you know?

    I talk to so many Chinese people every day, though, that I remain amazed and grateful toward my democracy, pepper spray and all.

  • Dakini@ said: Have you read the article by Klein, Rabbit?

    Sorry, no, haven't read an article by Naomi Klein. Seemed to have missed something in this thread - OP is referencing an article by Naomi Wolf - read that one. Where or what is article by Naomi Klein referred to here.

    Pepper spray use is, in fact, something new.

    http://reason.com/archives/2011/12/01/pepper-sprays-progressive-origins


    As I understand it, riot squads would not be applicable to a peaceful protest, that's why they're called "riot" squads. They're for riots.

    Because a protest or demonstration is defined as peaceful by its organizers does not mean that police or governmental organizations accept that definition. Dispersal tactics (pepper spray, horses, batons, pressure point holds) are utilized when police are confronted with controlling large masses of individuals in "non compliance" - peaceful or otherwise - with dispersal orders - which always precede tactics - either way - their definition is "non-lethal" and is largely used at their discretion. As for "riot squads" - these tactics likely spawn more riots than a squad rolls up to - from personal experience......
  • edited December 2011
    I agree,
    The police use of pepper spray
    is something new. I have to ask you myself, IronRabbit, did you read the article? It's not about women using mace for self-defense. That's irrelevant to what's being discussed. You're taking people's comments out of context to make...what point, exactly?

  • The point is - if this article is read (http://reason.com/archives/2011/12/01/pepper-sprays-progressive-origins) that oleosporin capsicum spray has been around actually since 1962 and evolved from mace.

    How is that irrelevant to an assertion that use of pepper spray by law enforcement officers is something new?

    Yes, mace was a predecessor to pepper spray and was marketed to women for self defense. That is in the reason.com article too - at the beginning - and near the end OC is referred to - that's oleosporint capsicum - pepper spray. Does that help tie this in to what is being discussed?

    Again, there is no article in the OP's post by anyone named Klein - it is by Naomi Wolf. What is in the article by Klein? Where is the article by Klein? Is that the article members here think hasn't been read?

    Compassionate Warrior@ - thanks for your comments. Always a pleasure.



  • @IronRabbit Who said Klein? Not me. But to clarify my last comment: I read the article as an analysis of a covert influence on city police forces from the Dept. of Homeland Security, a federal agency. I believe Wolf uses the term "federalization" of the police. This is the basic theme of the article. Dakini commented that use of pepper spray by the police was something new, meaning, I take it, new to law enforcement. And the original poster, Floating Abu, added an article about the police taking on a paramilitary function. So the discussion topic has been about changes in policing and crowd control tactics in a more agressive, militaristic direction. In this context, pointing out that women have been using pepper spray/mace for self-defense for decades sounds like a non-sequitur. It doesn't relate to a discussion about changes in police tactics and weaponry that appear to be going on nationwide.

    We did see a similar militarization of policing and crowd control during the anti-war protests of the 60's. Tear gas was used. CA governor Reagan called the National Guard in to quell protests in Berkeley. I wonder what the reason was back then. Was it because the crowds were too unruly? That wasn't the case at Kent State University, where a student was shot and killed by police. I think it's a good question: why is this militarization happening.
  • SileSile Veteran
    edited December 2011
    Pepper spray has been used in Madison, WI for quite a few years - usually every Halloween at the massive, usually-out-of-control university Halloween bash. I guess that's why it didn't strike me as odd that they'd use it in Occupy. Not saying I'm for it - just not shocked.

    Well, not EVERY Halloween.

    Here's another take, lol:

    June 21, 2011: A 20-year-old Madison woman who was grabbed and being dragged to an alley Tuesday afternoon got out of the suspect’s grasp by spraying him in the face with pepper spray, Madison police reported.

    The woman didn’t report the attack until the next day, fearing she’d get in trouble for having pepper spray.

    Not so.

    “In Madison, it is legal to possess pepper spray and use it in self-defense,” said Madison Police spokesman Joel DeSpain.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited December 2011
    “In Madison, it is legal to possess pepper spray and use it in self-defense,” said Madison Police spokesman Joel DeSpain.
    Good for Madison, I guess. How are women supposed to defend themselves if defense tools are illegal? I wonder what the law is in other cities and states.

    @Rabbit and C_W Yeah, that was me, I said Naomi Klein instead of Naomi Wolf. My bad.

  • Sile, do police use pepper spray on halloween in Madison, WI?
  • Sile, do police use pepper spray on halloween in Madison, WI?
    Yep! Saw it myself. Wasn't that honorable, either. On the other hand, the Halloween "protestors" were being...well, jerks.

  • Interesting Sile. No doubt alcohol was involved. I was downtown Friday night and saw three young kids yelling One was angry and cut across an a street diagonally (sp?) and a car honked. Crazy alcohol and that's how I was too.
  • Ah yes, alcohol was involved ;) On the other hand, I think the pepper spray (and the whole SWAT team approach) was completely unwarranted in this particular case. Madison caught flack for it afterward, and rightly so, imho. Bottom line, the people being pepper sprayed (in the street I saw) had not harmed or threatened anyone else, and there were only a few of them, kneeling down to block the road. The cops could easily have hauled them to the paddywagon but instead chose to blast their eyes with spray. It was kind of horrible.
  • IronRabbitIronRabbit Veteran
    edited December 2011
    @compassionate_warrior Who said only women have been using mace for decades as self defense? The article cited indicated that law enforcement has been using a form of mace or oleosporin capsicum spray for decades in addition to being marketed to women and postal workers for self defense. It seems you haven't bothered to read the article titled "Pepper Sprays Progressive Origins" in its entirety or haven't comprehended its implications vis a vis this discussion thread. Along with the other tactics cited use of pepper spray is clearly nothing new and the assertion of federalization of a newly militarized police is ideological claptrap. The pigs are the same as they ever were. Thanks for directing my comments back on topic.

    @Dakini - thanks for clearing up the Klein confusion. Wolf's article is well written and the whole high level conspiracy thing is dramatically evocative but sadly myopic. Perhaps the OWS and their supporters simply don't understand that their ideology has nothing to do with the level of force exerted upon them by police - that their message is not so uniquely threatening to the establishment that government agencies need to to conspiratorially overlap one another to maintain order - this is business-as-usual for them. Homeland Security is as mismanaged and incompetent as the USPS. Such inadequacies naturally lead to constitutional violations of civil rights - but again - that's nothing new in this country. Do you or compassionate_warrior perhaps know any police officers or national guardsman personally? I do. I've been told stories that seemed no in their right mind would admit to by these acquaintances. All in a days work for them. As Day-Day says in Next Friday, "Y'all can't fuck with the police..."




  • I know plenty of police and National Guardsmen as well, working with the latter on a regular basis. There's no conspiracy at work. What should cities do though when their public parks...for the general public...are completely overrun by people vandalizing them, defacating everywhere, and leaving tons of garbage for other people to pick up. The natural response for any mayor interested in maintaining his job would be to send in the cavalry and shoo the occupiers away.

    If people are told to move by the police from the public lands they are ruining/defacating/pollution, sitting there and doing nothing is not going to help. As a police officer, what would you'll have done?
  • edited December 2011
    Sile raises a point I brought up earlier (must have been on another OWS thread): the police are using pepper spray instead of simply hauling peaceful protesters off in paddy wagons, like they used to. Something has clearly changed. The police are supposed to be officers of the peace, not military personnel.

    An article in last Sunday's New York Times, "When the Police Go Military", explains there's been an escalation towards violent means of dealing with peaceful situations. Policing used to be about building a relationship with the community, not rolling in like paramilitary troops.

    "American law and tradition have tried to draw a clear line between police and military forces. To cast the roles of the two too closely, those in and out of law enforcement say, is to mistake the mission of each. The police, who are supposed to maintain the peace, 'are the citizens, and the citizens are the police', according to Chief Walter McNeil of Quincy, FL, the president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, citing the words of Sir Robert Peel, the father of modern-day policing."

    "Yet ... images from Occupy protests ... show just how readily police officers can adopt military-style tactics and equipment, and come off more like soldiers...''What seems clear is that the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, and the federal Homeland Security dollars that flowed to police forces in response to them, have further encouraged police forces to embrace paramilitary tactics like those that first emerged in the decades-long war on drugs.' ...

    'Police officers are not at war', said Chuck Wexler, the executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum, and cannot imagine themselves as occupying armies Rather, they must approach any continuing Occupy protests, ... with a respect for the First Amendment and a realization that protesters are not enemies but people the police need to engage with up the road. 'You can have all the sophisticated equipment in the world, but it does not replace common sense and discretion and finding ways to defuse situations', Wexler said. 'You can't be talking about community policing one day and the next day have an action that is so uncharacteristic to the values of your department.' "


    More at: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/sunday-review/have-american-police-become-militarized.html
  • SileSile Veteran
    edited December 2011
    Totally agree, compassionate_warrior. I wonder what is behind this trend. Could simply be a sort of unplanned ramp-up in SWAT team approaches after 9/11; maybe the uptick in violence has seeped in from Homeland Security practices.

    I do know that local businesses (some of whom experienced damages in the year prior to "Pepper Spray Year,") put very heavy pressure on local police to prevent damages happening the next year.

    Where I see it going wrong is in specific, decision-making instances...the police on the quiet back street, facing a few kneeling street-blockers, absolutely didn't need to use pepper spray. It was almost like a pantomime...after 2 a.m., there seemed to be a very deliberate decision to "go to the next level," regardless of what individual circumstances dictated. Flak jackets and helmets were donned, the pepper spray came out, and the streets were cleared in 1/2 hour.

    I'm torn, because I sympathize with the shop owners, too. But the cops could have dragged the kids into the wagon easily enough.
  • This needs to be taken for what it is....OP-ED. Opinion doesn't explain anything but opinion - and besides, both sides of this argument are clearly detailed within the article. This is neither proof nor evidence.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/sunday-review/have-american-police-become-militarized.html

    compassionate_warrior@ said: The police are supposed to be officers of the peace, not military personnel. - and - Policing used to be about building a relationship with the community, not rolling in like paramilitary troops.

    What fantasyland graphic novel were these assumptions gleaned from? How can law enforcement officers be deemed all one and not the other in terms of their roles that are situation-specific and involve humanly flawed judgement combined with specific tactical training to maintain lawful control and enforce law?

    OWS is using a self inflicted victimization to promote and establish a movement to bring about change in the establishment. Citing mistreatment by police is merely another tactic to raise consciousness. No one deserves to be hurt by the police - but it happens to the innocent (and the guilty) every single day whether we want to believe it or not - or whether we think it is right or not. However, if you defy law enforcement orders - whether they seem constitutional or not - the cops will not engage in debate - they will act first and think (cover up) later.

    This is so harsh - but it is very real and "Andy of Mayberry - and Deputy Barney Fife" is not the model for urban police departments.


  • The fact remains that in most situations, the officers had the option of simply removing protesters and putting them in paddy wagons, as the customary practice used to be. And the article by Wolf traces the escalation in response tactics to orders from the Dept. of Homeland Security (are you sure you've read the whole article??).

    The Times article says that once local police forces get the military weaponry, they tend to look for situations in which to use it, whether it's warranted or not. Also,

    "The more the police fail to defuse confrontations but instead help create them--be it with their equipment, tactics or demeanor--the more ties with community members are burned, [Timothy Lynch, director of the criminal justice project at the Cato Institute], said." Good policing used to depend on developing a good relationship with the community. Police depend on the community to provide leads to help solve crimes.

    An article that interviews a number of national authorities on police ethics and tactics isn't mere "Op-Ed", it's a research paper.

    Did you see the thread we had a couple of weeks ago on policing, and on Buddhists who choose law enforcement as a career? I'm guessing not. It was pretty interesting.

    idk, IronRabbit. Maybe it was before your time when police officers were called "officers of the peace". That's one reason why in the UK, most police don't carry weapons.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    Nice post Dakini

    When I was a student when U of Michigan ('98?)was undefeated and beat Ohio State the students stormed the field and took down the goalpost. There was a ring of police and some students got beaten and taken to jail. They did use tear gas. The front people were being pushed by the back people and they were being gased. I actually stormed the field and the police moved at me but I left their jockstrap on the ground with quick lateral cuts shake and baked em :)
    when i lived in east lansing, this would happen all the time at Michigan State. there's a place on campus called Cedar Village that is known for always having riots and parties. my girlfriend tells a story where her group of friends had already passed out after a long day of tailgating and woke up in their apartment coughing and their eyes burning because the tear gas had leeched in their windows. sports riots really can become violent though and most of the stories i hear of people getting tackled or gassed are a result of someone throwing beer bottles or lighting stuff on fire... :rolleyes:

    but yes... these sorts of responses have become policy for a long time.
  • I think policing is kind of like the religious business. Priests and monks/lamas are supposed to abide by a certain work ethic and guidelines, but many don't. Corruption can set in. Power can go to their heads. And now there's this Homeland Security influence on the police forces, which has made bad situations worse.

  • It is downright delusional - to keep insisting there was ever some acceptable customary handling of arrestees in some farsical past by police - anywhere. And to attribute heresay about "advice" from DHS as evidence of federalization of police is like chicken little raving on about the sky falling. UK police have used CS gas since the 80's and spray since the 1990's - and a derivative of OC spray - PAVA is carried now by all UK police while on operational duties. They may not all have guns - but pepper spray they do all have.

    btw compassionate_warrior the title peace officer has to do with a law enforcement officer, such as a sheriff, who is responsible for maintaining civil peace - not being a peaceful dude.....
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited December 2011
    :rant: <--- IronRabbit haha! We get it, you're angry that others don't share your opinion! I can't help but chuckle, Rabbit. But it looks like more media sources are coming to the same conclusion: the Dept. of Homeland Security has provided the means for police forces to beef up their enforcement capacity. I don't know why you're calling these reports "hearsay".


    But we may be missing the main point of these articles and discussions. Why has a simple protest movement, that in most instances was peaceful and lawful, received such an extreme reaction? Macing university students sitting on the front steps of a building? What's that about? I've seen plenty of protests in my life, on TV and in person, and they haven't gotten this type of reaction. Not the peaceful ones. Could it be true, as Wolf alleges, that the Powers That Be find these protests threatening? Or is it just boys with toys run amok? Something is off about this, it doesn't make sense. During the G.W. Bush presidency, there was a peace march of 200,000 people in Washington DC, protesting the Iraq war, and there were no problems.

    Where do you live, Rabbit? In the US, police aren't supposed to use excessive force, and if they do, they can be taken to court, and do get taken to court. Maybe it's not considered a scandal in other countries, but it is here in the US. Although I'm pretty sure our OP is British, and s/he thought it was scandalous enough to create a thread about it. If it were ordinary, there wouldn't be so much discussion and analysis of it in the media. (not to mention, on internet forums)
  • I think policing is kind of like the religious business. Priests and monks/lamas are supposed to abide by a certain work ethic and guidelines, but many don't. Corruption can set in. Power can go to their heads. And now there's this Homeland Security influence on the police forces, which has made bad situations worse.

    I don't see policing equating to religious business. I think humans are flawed, and very occasionally, really flawed. But in general, police, priests, monks, and most humans aren't corrupt, certainly not in my experience.

    Of that list of people though, I've personally never observed a priest, monk or lama doing anything that bothered me, but I have observed a (very) few policemen doing it. That could probably be chalked up to percentages, though.

  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    Strange, but I thought the US used to be all about the right to peaceful protest. That's what used to differentiate us from totalitarian regimes. Freedom of speech. Does anyone remember that?
    Not really. The US has historically come down hard on peaceful protesters when they're protests actively challenge the state in any meaningful way. For example, Eugene Debs was sentenced to ten years in prison in 1918 for simply speaking out against war.
  • Here in Canada we have the RCMP, our national police force. In B.C they are responsible for all policing outside of the city. I believe that most of them are decent people, family people. I also believe that most of them would crack your skull if they thought no one was looking. Or tazer you in public knowing that they will be protected by their superiors. it's their training. City cops are worse, generally. I know a young woman who was tazered three times one night. Granted she was out of control, but c'mon, an unarmed 120lb girl?
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited December 2011
    In addition to reading Naomi Wolf's interesting article, I suggest reading Joshua Holland's response, Wolf's reply, and Holland's followup, as well.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator

    Blocking traffic and/or camping in a public space is disorderly and unlawful if the police ask you to clear the passage.

    When the police advise you that forceful action will be taken if you do not move, and you snub your nose at them, that is looking for a fight in my opinion. What was cut out of the beginning of most of the pepper spray videos were the police informing each person, individually, that they would be removed by force if they did not move.

    Again, it is not about the message, but how it is being delivered.

    I am not advocating for the use of pepper spray, the police could have cleared the area by lifting each individual... they had enough police there to do that... my point is that many OWS are looking for a fight that they can put on video thinking that it will help the cause. I personally believe it hurts the cause
    That's one way of looking at it. As for myself, I think the use of nonviolent civil disobedience has actually helped strengthen the movement by forcing the state to show its true colours and, in the process, increase media exposure of the movement itself since the tendency has been to simply ignore it as much as possible (unless its to put it in a bad light).

    In addition, I also watched a longer version of the UC Davis pepper spray video, and it does appear that people were warned the police were going to arrest people who didn't leave the park, and that chemical agents would be used on the people sitting peacefully on the ground if they didn't get up/leave. But in my opinion, that doesn't justify Officer Pike's actions in any way.

    Sitting peaceful on the ground should not be considered a provocation for retaliatory violence in any circumstance, nor should it provoke any sort of punitive attack by an institution sworn to serve and protect the civilian population. The way I see it, the police themselves came into the park simply to remove students who were peacefully assembling there, and instigated the violence by threatening the students with the use of force, chemical agents, and arrests. To me, events like these show what the police are really there to protect, property rights, not people.

    Unfortunately, under our current system, the state has a monopoly on violence, and property rights trump human rights. I can see both sides (as I have friends who are police officers and I know many of them are just 'doing their job'), but I only agree with one—the one without riot gear, of course.
  • @Jason Thanks for those follow-ups. Wasn't Debs a socialist or communist party leader? I suspect that had something to do with his prison sentence, not that that justifies arresting a peaceful protester. But freedom of speech and freedom of assembly have always been touted as something that made the US better than the Eastern bloc countries. "Land of the free", and all that. The US President, "Leader of the Free World". But you're right that challenges to state power (anti-war protests, Civil Rights protests) have always met with harsh treatment. Which is why Wolf raised the question, how are the OWS protests threatening the state? Anything that threatens corporate power threatens the state.

    Tazers should also be closer to a last resort. I think weapons make police intellectually lazy. They don't have to think about how to defuse a situation tactically. All they have to do is pull out their weapon of choice.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    @Jason Thanks for those follow-ups. Wasn't Debs a socialist or communist party leader? I suspect that had something to do with his prison sentence, not that that justifies arresting a peaceful protester. But freedom of speech and freedom of assembly have always been touted as something that made the US better than the Eastern bloc countries. "Land of the free", and all that. The US President, "Leader of the Free World". But you're right that challenges to state power (anti-war protests, Civil Rights protests) have always met with harsh treatment. Which is why Wolf raised the question, how are the OWS protests threatening the state? Anything that threatens corporate power threatens the state.

    Tazers should also be closer to a last resort. I think weapons make police intellectually lazy. They don't have to think about how to defuse a situation tactically. All they have to do is pull out their weapon of choice.
    Yes, Debs was a socialist who ran for president several times (which wasn't illegal, mind you), and was sent to prison for giving an anti-war speech. And, yes, I agree that the OWS protests are threatening the state in part because they threaten corporate power. But I also think there's more to it than just that.
  • edited December 2011
    And, yes, I agree that the OWS protests are threatening the state in part because they threaten corporate power. But I also think there's more to it than just that.
    What's your theory? Give, give. :D

    And what happened to Debs in the end? Did he get a lawyer?
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    And, yes, I agree that the OWS protests are threatening the state in part because they threaten corporate power. But I also think there's more to it than just that.
    What's your theory? Give, give. :D

    Maybe some other time. :)
  • I think weapons make police intellectually lazy. They don't have to think about how to defuse a situation tactically.
    Totally agree.

  • That video from UC Davis really fills out the picture and explains a few things. Thanks, Jason. The students all got over to one side, and the police left them alone. Looks like they were just going after trespassers, illegal campers. But here's a question: why didn't the campus police remove trespassers, homeless or whoever the campers were, from the very start? Do we know how long the tents were there, before police came in to remove them?
  • IronRabbitIronRabbit Veteran
    edited December 2011
    Dakini@ (you really don't get me) No, no, no - I'm not angry - I'm incredulous that enforcement (excessive or otherwise) is so shocking - as if one genuinely expects that thugs with badges will behave nicely towards peaceful protestors disobeying orders to disperse to avoid a scandal. Incredulous that misstatement and speculation in the media is regarded as conclusive proof of high level conspiracy or escalation of militarized tactics when they have always been in place. Incredulous that my intelligence is insulted by a poser suggesting I can't read an article. Okay, that pissed me off. But agreement with my opinion is unnecessary despite Jason@, robot@, KnightofBuddha@ and Telly03@ voicing some small agreement with some of my points. I am just a U.S. taxpayer who lived through the 60's and got my fair share of abuse from the police (maced - clubbed - arrested - roughed up) in my youth and cannot agree that what has happened to OWS is new - or ramped up - or escalated - or any more militarized than ever. Don't agree with my "opinion" - I don't care - but I disagree with yours. And corporate power, sadly, doesn't really give a rat's ass about OWS just profits.

    http://bastardlogic.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/the-troubling-truth-about-naomi-wolfs-dhsows-hype/

    http://www.examiner.com/top-news-in-minneapolis/homeland-security-role-occupy-crackdowns-limited-says-agency

    http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/shocking-truth-about-factless-assertions

    http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153300/occupy_crackdowns:_naomi_wolf's_response_to_my_critique_largely_evades_the_issue_at_hand/
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited December 2011
    Dakini@
    Just to let you know, it the tag featiure only works if you put the '@' in front of the screen name (e.g., @Dakini).
  • Ok, Rabbit, I get you, now that you explained. :) Still, i've seen plenty of protests that weren't dealt with this way. I've seen people hauled off and arrested, but without weaponry being used. On other occasions, peaceful protesters do their thing, and no one interferes. I don't think we've seen these more violent types of tactics consistently over the 2nd half of the last century. There's no single stereotype that can be applied to protest situations. There have been several marches on Washington since the 50's or 60's, and AFAIK, there's been no police interference. ML King, The Million Man March, the war protest during G.W. Bush.

    And it's not necessarily a conspiracy. It's Homeland Security doing what they see to be their job, and maybe some police depts. getting carried away with the weaponry. I don't know, let's wait and see what further research uncovers. Like Jason's tape showed, maybe the media reports haven't been giving us the whole story. Maybe it's not at all what we think it is. Maybe it's "none of the above".

    Avoid a scandal? What scandal? There was a scandal to cover up? I must've missed something. The interesting thing about the UC Davis video was that the students were allowed to continue protesting. That's what it looked like to me. Police were there to run campers off university property.

    Corporate power really seemed to care during that WTO-related protest in Seattle, whatever that was, years ago. But the protest got unruly, too, as I recall.

    I've seen remarkably kindly police. There are all kinds. Where is our police member in this discussion?
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