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Taking Refuge

edited November 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Hello All! It's been a while since I've checked in here. I am looking for people to tell me how to go about and what to expect when taking refuge in the Sangha? I've just made the decision to participate in a Sangha near my home instead of practicing alone and I'm loving it! Now I want to formally take refuge but am confused about the procees.

Comments

  • Ask someone at your sangha. Procedures and vows can vary slightly, depending on the sect or lineage.
  • Of course :)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    You can perform a DIY ceremony if you wish, in the privacy of your own home..... it can be as simple, or as ornate as you want it to be.
  • I've read that federica! It said to have a Buddhist Sutras book. Have you seen a Sutras book with ALL the Sutras in it?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    No, no, no...hang on.
    All you have to do is to recite the triple gem three times, and that's it....

    See the attached document.
    It's that simple....
  • Thanks federica :)
  • Refuge is a sort of multifaceted thing :)

    The very best thing is to talk to you Geshe, request refuge. He might tell you, "Well, let's wait a little while." If you are shy about asking, check with a member of your sangha who's been there a while - they'll know how to best approach it with your Geshe. Eventually, if you're sure you'd like to make your Buddhism "official" (kind of how we westerners see it, I think), you'll have a small ceremony, often with a few other refuge-takers. You might be asked to kneel, and the Geshe (maybe with a translator if he doesn't speak English) will lead you through some refuge vows.

    It's a wonderful feeling; which may not be the right attitude, because as others have pointed out, refuge is really in your mind, and no ceremony is really necessary. But I think it's okay to appreciate the ceremony :)

    If you do take refuge, and feel that in your heart you really choose the Buddhist path, it's good to then make that path for real - really commit to it and embrace it. But if you're more comfortable remaining Christian, or agnostic, or undecided, you can totally and in good conscience continue to participate in Buddhism, regardless. It's just that your practice will be deeper if, upon deciding Buddhism really and truly is for you, you invest in it.

    There's no pressure to invest - it's simply that if you choose to go deeper, you will experience more depth. I feel that we westerners are sort of lost, a lot of the time, and hesitate to commit to anything, which is totally okay, and you can benefit hugely from Buddhism without committing to anything. But committing to a particular path has its own beauty, too.

  • Sila, your comment (which I truly appreciate!) mentions something that has recently confused me. While I feel as if I have committed to the path and take my practices seriously, my desire to formally take refuge has been exciting to me! The Sangha I am practicing with right now is wonderful and I'm very happy with it...but I'm confused because we are practicing the art of mindful living in the tradition of Vietnamese Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh. I've been reading a lot of what Thay teaches and he talks about God some. Also, I attended a Dharma talk today and the monk who spoke, Chu Chan Huy, talked about his father who died today and said "we will meet again." Can ANYONE explain to me what God and afterlife has to do with Buddhism? I'm getting very confused about this practice and these teachings. Thank you!
  • *Sile* I meant :)
    OH...and I have no fears about committing to practicing the Path ;) I just am confused about the Sangha
  • Well, as a former Christian, my feeling on what you mentioned is this: if you come to the Buddhist conclusions on reality and so forth, they are very expansive, and it is possible to (I believe) use a word like "God" and genuinely mean it.

    Meaning, that when one realizes or glimpses the nature of the mind, one finds one has glimpsed something all-knowing and all-loving (if I may be so bold). I've heard it described as benevolent omniscience, etc. To me, that fits very well with the Christian concept of God, especially when one adds Christian concepts such as, "God is in everything" and so on.

    Now, I don't' mean to say there is no difference between Christianity and Buddhism and that there isn't any benefit to choosing and deepening one path; just that, at least in my mind, Buddhism is so expansive that one can refer to "God" when speaking to Christians, as kind of a shortcut to communication.

    If Thay says "God," the Christian/formerly-Christian student immediately knows he's referring to a benevolent, omniscient force; maybe it's just easier to say "God" to make the conversation easier? It would be a good question for Thay!

    As far as "meeting again," something I've been wrestling a lot with lately, in Buddhist terms I think of it as "when we've all achieved enlightenment, there will be no separation ever again, so for all practical purposes, we will meet again."
  • so "God" is has essentially the same meaning as Buddha Nature then?
  • re-read your post and it made better sense the second time read :). Thank you for taking the time! Metta <3
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    edited December 2011
    Hello Kathryn. I personally would not link the two, but IMO god is the power in the universe that has it's laws and rules. Not an entity.

    Back to taking refuge, I have a book by the Dalai Lama and in the first chapter he speaks in quite some detail about this ceremony. I will try to quote some of it..

    ''Technically we become a buddhist when we decicde to take refuge in the three jewels, and when we generate bodhichitta (compassion)'' - I assume you know what the 3 jewels are.

    ''Unless we have a good foundational experience of the practice of taking refuge in the three jewels, we will not be able to have a high level of realization of bodhichitta. It is for this reason that the distinction between a practicing buddhist and a non-practicing buddhist is made on the basis of whether or not an individual has taken refuge.''

    He goes on to say, ''However, when we talk about taking refuge in the three jewels, we should not imagine that it simply involves a ceremony in which we formally take refuge from a master, or that merely by virtue of participating in such a ceremony we have become a buddhist. There is a formal refuge ceremony in buddhism, but the ceremony is not the point. The point is that as a result of your own reflection, even without a master, you become fully convinced of the vadility of the buddha, dharma and sangha as the true ultimate objects of refuge, and that is when you actually become a buddhist. You entrust your spiritual well-being to the three jewels, and this is what is really meant by taking refuge. On the other hand, if there is any doubt or apprehension in your mind about the vadility of the buddha, dharma and sangha as being the ultimate objects of refuge, even though you may have taken part in a refuge ceremony, that very suspicion or doubt prevents you from being a practicing buddhist, at least for the time being.''

    I hope this helps :)
  • Thank you for the feedback TT. I appreciate it. I think I have been excited about finding a Sangha to physically BE with and I wanted to participate in a physical ceremony with this Sangha. Does that make sense?(I've been very excited. LOL!) Problem is, the more time I spend with them, the more I'm realizing some of what they teach goes against what I feel is true, ie: the references to God and afterlife in Dharma lessons. I disagree that either of these ideas have any place in Buddhist teachings and am starting to feel a little less enchanted.
    I appreciate The Dalai Lama and what he has to say.
  • Hmmm...I know those guys are big on interfaith dialogue...I guess I'd have to hear his teachings to understand better what you're experiencing. But at any rate, it sounds like your gut is telling you it may not be what you're after? If you're drawn to the Dalai Lama's approach, are there any Tibetan teachings near you?
  • Each sangha is a little different. Like the DL stated, if you have any doubt in any of the 3 jewles, it will hinder your progress as a practicing buddhist. Maybe go along with it for a while or try to find a new sangha. I don't know, I am not in your shoes or know this sangha lol.. GL though
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited December 2011
    God is not really mentioned in the Buddha's teachings. Take it or leave it, really. I recommend leaving it, though. Up to you.
  • I went to practice early today and met with my teacher. He reassured me that no one is claiming existence of god, soul or afterlife. I can't figure out how I misinterpreted what was said but am glad to know I did. LOL!
  • Lol, that's great! I guess it's good to give things a second chance!
  • practicing with a group is a lot different than my solo practice. It's both wonderful and a little confusing because now I am listening to others and not just paying attention to the 3, 5 and 8. People confuse me, Buddhism does not :)
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