There is no producer

Jeffrey

"There is no material that exists for the production of Name and Form; and when Name and Form cease, they do not go anywhither in space. After Name and Form have ceased, they do not exist anywhere in the shape of heaped-up music material. Thus when a lute is played upon, there is no previous store of sound; and when the music ceases it does not go anywhither in space. When it has ceased, it exists nowhere in a stored-up state. Having previously been nonexistent, it came into existence on account of the structure and stem of the lute and the exertions of the performer; and as it came into existence so it passes away. In exactly the same way, all the elements of being, both corporeal and non-corporeal come into existence after having previously been non-existent; and having come into existence pass away."

- Paul Carus, The Gospel of Buddha From Everyday Mind, a Tricycle book edited by Jean Smith

taiyaki

"In actuality there is in seeing just the seen, no seer, in hearing just sounds, no hearer. How is this deathless if there is just manifestation? Just as Zen Master Dogen puts it: firewood does not turn into ashes, firewood abides in the phenomenal expression of firewood while ash abides in the phenomenal expression of ash, while at the same time ash contains firewood, firewood contains ash (all is the manifestation of the interdependent universe as if the entire universe is coming together to give rise to this experience and thus all is contained in one single expression).

The similar principle applies not just to firewood and ash but to everything else: for example you do not say summer turns into autumn and autumn turns into winter - summer is summer, autumn is autumn, distinct and complete in itself yet each instance of existence time contains the past, present and future in it. So the same applies to birth and death - birth does not turn into death as birth is the phenomenal expression of birth and death is the phenomenal expression of death - they are interdependent yet disjoint, unsupported, complete. Accordingly, birth is no-birth and death is no-death... Since each moment is not really a starting point or ending point for a entity - without the illusion and reference of a self-entity - every moment is simply a complete manifestation of itself. And every manifestation does not leave traces: they are disjoint, unsupported and self-releases upon inception. This wasn't dogen's exact words but I think the gist is there, you should read dogen's genjokoan which I posted in my blog."

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/06/unborn-dharma.html?m=0

pegembara

In the same manner a baby does not turn into an old man. The baby has the form and thoughts of a baby, the old man similarly so. Birth of a baby is just that. Death of the old man is just that. The baby didn't die and the old man was never born although that was just conventional way of describing birth, aging and death.

One can argue that not having been born how could one die?

Yet although baby remains as baby and old man as old man they are neither same nor different. There is a relationship between them but just not in the way that one normally thinks. Always a process of change or becoming otherwise. No static inherent entity or self.

Since each moment is not really a starting point or ending point for a entity - without the illusion and reference of a self-entity - every moment is simply a complete manifestation of itself.

~~~

But delusion of self is so strong that even the logical thinking cannot uproot it.

~~~~

The same reasoning also answers the perennial questions : "If there is no self who reaps the results of one's actions?" "Who gets reborn?" "Is there self or no self?"

If one is deluded there can be no escape from the effects of kamma. Breaking free from the delusion is akin to breaking free from kamma and it's effects.