bilingual workplace issues.

AMH

Hi all, I am going to ask this here because I know we are a fairly international site besides wanting to handle this skillfully (but pretty darn frustrated). So maybe others have the multiple language issue.

I work in Denver, in the city, in areas with a large number of Spanish speakers. So we have had some issues at one of my schools (not at any other school) because the staff speaks Spanish which is great, but they speak Spanish all the time. In front of me, in front of English speaking parents (I had 4 complaints last year) with all the children, etc. One person really does not have good english skills so there is translating back and forth. I know she is taking english classes and I want to support that. I have brought this up before, the people before me made it a regular talk, and it is not changing. No matter how much appreciate what they can do for our Spanish speaking families I just am not getting through that not EVERYONE can understand them. Since they understand both I don't think it makes sense. last year we had a very crappy conversation about this where I wrote up 2 people based on the 4 complaints and previous talks, they threw the paper in my face and were very rude and unprofessional about it.

Well this week it came to a head, I spent 3 hours in meetings going over improvement plans and if they spent 1/3 of it using english I would be surprised. I am learning spanish and i am catching more words in teh conversation. I was irritated with that but trying to look at the bright side. Then in 2 different ways I realized they do not understand what I am saying the way that I expected, major misunderstandings. And apparently they have been calling other people in the organization instead of talking to me. So I have got to stop this in meetings, I say something and then everyone discusses it in Spanish and comes back to say ok to me, the next week I realize we misunderstood.

I know what to do next, but the issue is volatile, At least today I am going to speak with the other non-spanish speaker in French in front of everyone, if we recall enough french then maybe we can show them what is going on. That is just for fun, I really want to send them on a field trip to the asian markets or the refugee school with almost 40 languages.

nanimo

AHeerdt, I sympathise with your situation -- Really. Where I am(Central Texas) it's really no different. Spanish speakers default to spanish here, and look at you like you are from outer space if you even try to suggest that they speak English.

Also as one who learned spanish, I can say from personal experience. It's not always that they can't understand your meaning. Sometimes it's a matter that they choose not to "understand" under the excuse that because you are not a native speaker your words are irrelevant to them.

Unfortunately, I know of no reasonable way to deal with your issue as I also have tried the foreign language approach, and accomplished nothing.

Dakini

Who are these staffers who aren't able to understand your instructions and discussion? If they're in a position of responsibility, it should be a required part of the job to be able to understand English sufficiently to be able to follow the discussion in official meetings and understand instructions.

If people are speaking their native language among themselves in informal conversation that isn't relevant to the workplace, they have that right, and the workplace doesn't have the right to require them to do otherwise. If, however, they're participating in meetings, but decline to speak English to non-Spanish speaking peers and superiors on matters of importance, that's a problem. It sounds like they don't meet minimum qualifications of the job (functional command of English)...? Or are choosing not to comply--a different problem.

Check out Civil Rights laws in your state before proceeding. Someone in the school system should be knowledgeable on that score, if not your school principal. There have been federal court cases on this issue, though not in a school context. Proceed with utmost caution. You (the school, or other relevant entity) could get sued. You need to do your homework.

Mountains

If it's not already in their job description, then it should be: "Able to read, speak, and comprehend English fluently." It's been in the past several job descriptions I've had. I'm generally not in favor of all-encompassing blanket type laws for things like that, but one thing I *am* firmly in favor of is making English the official language of the US. My ancestors came from Germany, and I know for a fact (due to having documents in their handwriting) that they learned English within the first two generations. I'm sure they still spoke German at home for some time, but by the third generation, German was no longer spoken - because they were Americans. I realize that demographics change, but the overwhelming majority of people in the US speak English, and I think immigrants should make an effort to learn and use it when dealing with people outside their families and ethnic communities. It's common courtesy (something increasingly uncommon).

In the case you describe, I would have no compunction whatsoever about saying directly to these people, "Excuse me, could you please conduct our mutual business in English?" If they have a problem with that, you should talk to whomever they work for to find out why. I wouldn't want my children in a school where the staff refuses to speak the language of the majority of people in the country. If I lived in Mexico or wherever, I would want my kids (and myself) to learn the local language. Again, common courtesy.

Dakini

Anyone applying for citizenship is required to demonstrate a basic command of English. I don't think any further laws making English the official language are needed. But this may be a hot topic for another thread.

Interesting issue, Heerdt. Let us know how it works out. If these staffers are bilingual teachers and counselors, it must be in their contract that business is to be conducted in English.

Mountains

Regardless of that issue, I still think they should be confronted about it in the OP context. It's inappropriate and unprofessional in that situation. If others in the room are not able to speak and understand the language being used by a minority in the room, then it's simply (once again) a matter of common courtesy. If these people are supposed to be professional educators, they're surely not acting like it. If I pulled a stunt like that on my unit, I'd get fired.

AMH

Thank you all, these are staff that I got with my job. They are part of the old way of doing things where we were more babysitters with some enrichment to fulfill the needs of our grants and we are moving in such a different direction. when I realized the low level of English of one of them I happened to mention it to HR and was told I had some support but that unless they really screwed up they were mine.

We are dealing with every level of professional behavior here frankly. I had one staff tell me that another leader of a tutoring program after school was 'ugly'. Basically the other leader said our kids were staring into the windows of the library where they were working. Well we shouldn't have our kids doing that, and that is not a professional way at all to talk about her. Last year this lady and a parent nearly got into a fist fight, my staff called the parent a liar. I stood up and intervened. I am working with it and have seen improvement but really these staff could be retrained from the ground up as humans (not my compassionate self right now) And yes there have been 'corrective actions' whenever I get the written copy approved in time to address it.

I am looking at first of all pulling people one at a time, last time I tried a group message it went like crap. With some research I am thinking I can play the parent card pretty hard. If their students do not speak spanish and are being talked to in spanish often then that is something the parents can bring as an issue. In a related note a child care worked was prosecuted when it was proven that a child was hurt while they were texting.

Dakini

Pretty intense, Heerdt. You seem to have a handle on it, though. Sounds like, since the nature of what your program is doing has changed, it might be time to re-write job descriptions and job qualifications, or something. And yes, you're right, the staff need training, especially since the nature of the job has changed somewhat, you said the program is moving in a different direction and developing into more than just a babysitting service. So these staff were qualified for the job they applied for, but the nature of the job has changed. Not their fault. They should be supported in getting some training. (But of course, that takes funding.) It sounds like a meeting with all of them is called for, in which you explain what you just told us.

Quite an assignment you have, overall.

AMH

Thankyou, about the only thing I would change is the pay, and I am tracking what I am doing so that I can continue to move in better paying directions. Meanwhile I am just happy considering the economy that I am ok

Dakini

Right. I still can't get my mind around the fact that someone with an MA in education is getting paid a pittance. There should be a law against it. :shake:

AMH

Should be! I have some theories and i am working on a rather esoteric approach to it all. My current points of focus are
* don't wait for others to see what I can do, tell them or show them
* change my attitude to attract what I want and need/write 10 positives a day
* meditate and listen when that soft inner voice has something to say

I think that is enough, it is the weekend, no kids really, and a writing project calling me

compassionate_warrior

It's a fact of life in this day and age that one has to toot one's own horn in order for the manager to notice the good job one is doing. It used to be the manager's job to be aware of how the employees are performing, but times have changed. I've seen slackers take advantage of this, and use it to manipulate the boss into thinking they're doing a good job. I like your plan, though.

theotherlara

AHeerdt, I sympathise with your situation -- Really. Where I am(Central Texas) it's really no different. Spanish speakers default to spanish here, and look at you like you are from outer space if you even try to suggest that they speak English.

Also as one who learned spanish, I can say from personal experience. It's not always that they can't understand your meaning. Sometimes it's a matter that they choose not to "understand" under the excuse that because you are not a native speaker your words are irrelevant to them.

Unfortunately, I know of no reasonable way to deal with your issue as I also have tried the foreign language approach, and accomplished nothing.

I lived in New Mexico for a while, and it's the same there nanimo, and I speak Spanish fluently. But I'm white, so it's as if my Spanish isn't 'legitimate' somehow to them sometimes...very bizarre.

My first language was not English, but I don't refuse to speak it and ignore anyone who doesn't speak to me in another language. It's ridiculous that that happens, but it's a fact of interaction in some areas...and if you speak out about it, you're almost guaranteed to be labeled as a racist (especially if you're white).

Plain and simple it's a form of racism, just a mostly socially accepted form of it.

AMH

I have seen that speaking Spanish and looking like you speak spanish vs looking white is an interesting thing. Most of the administration in my schools speak spanish fluently (as far as I can hear) and 3 out of 4 are white women. I had one lady I worked with at my weekend job who sounded Russian, deep smokers type voice, and she looked light middle eastern/european. She was born in Mexico to parents from the middle east. it is just going to get more like this, assumptions not relevant. Actually one of my few black students was born in the US but spent most of his life in Germany.

Well I am not sure how I feel about others having the same experience. I am hoping that there will be a change. I did enough study on the legal history of education to understand the issues of ESL education and where parents felt they must advocate for their students but what they fought against was having their students in classrooms where they did not learn English and the education was much lower. I feel if we are making our best effort to educate all students to the same standard regardless of their first language or if their parents ever learn English then the least we can expect back is support for English in our programs.

Dakini

My experience with American-born Hispanics in NM is that their Spanish is fairly poor. Many of them only know what they learn in High School. They appreciate "Anglos" who have made the effort to gain a strong command of Spanish, as opposed to those who garble it, or sort of talk down to them with a few words of broken Spanish. I know from experience that among politically active Chicanos in California, Anglo friends are expected to speak Spanish--it's a mark of solidarity. I haven't run into anything like what Heerdt and lara are describing. Not denying it happens, just saying I haven't run into it.

AMH

Well that is good, it means it is only in some areas then. I really havent had a divided community to the extent that I have in this particular school. It seems very tense there between spanish and english speakers. I have mostly had situations where there was a need for translation, not hostility. It feels like I am taking sides by whatever I do, learning spanish or asking for english or anything.

In general one thing I would like to do everywhere I go is to demonstrate that not only are white people not necessarily rascist (my dad was an anti-rascist although a very quiet one way back in the 60's, I was raised never hearing a racial slur, joke or talk about the 'other') but that we are not one generic culture like not all spanish speakers are from mexico. My family is Danish and has Danish traditions in our home town, no rodeo queen, instead they elect a 'little mermaid' for the annual parade, things like that.

theotherlara

My experience with American-born Hispanics in NM is that their Spanish is fairly poor. Many of them only know what they learn in High School. They appreciate "Anglos" who have made the effort to gain a strong command of Spanish, as opposed to those who garble it, or sort of talk down to them with a few words of broken Spanish. I know from experience that among politically active Chicanos in California, Anglo friends are expected to speak Spanish--it's a mark of solidarity. I haven't run into anything like what Heerdt and lara are describing. Not denying it happens, just saying I haven't run into it.

Some appreciate it, and many don't. I don't garble or speak down to anyone, lol. And true, a lot of the population that was born in America don't speak much Spanish at all, if any.

New Mexico is quite bizarre once you start getting more and more down into the layers of racism and prejudice. It's what I observed quite often there, happening to others (Anglo/Mexican/Hispanic/Native/AfroAmerican, all types), and occasionally to me.