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2nd Question: Troubled by movie
Makarov
Explorer
I am grateful for the wonderfully clear explanations to my first question. I knew you guys could help. Now for my second and final question that arose as I watched this movie.
There was a scene in which the young boy Monk was caught catching rabbits and killing them to make a fur stole to give his mother when she returnd to claim him from the Monastery. The boy was an orphan however so this was purely childish wishful thinking...hoping.
In what I would call a "fit of anger and outrage" at the boy Monks behavior the Master exclaimed loudly..."Your mother was a nun who broke her vows and left the monastery to marry a man. This man, your father, was a poacher. He trapped and killed animals illegally! You have not only YOUR bad karma to make-up for but also the bad karma of your parents!"
I have never heard that we are responsible for the bad karma of our ancestors (ie) parents, etc.
Again, I am confused. Am I responsible only for my actions or do I also bear responsibility for making amends for the bad actions of my parents, etc?
There was a scene in which the young boy Monk was caught catching rabbits and killing them to make a fur stole to give his mother when she returnd to claim him from the Monastery. The boy was an orphan however so this was purely childish wishful thinking...hoping.
In what I would call a "fit of anger and outrage" at the boy Monks behavior the Master exclaimed loudly..."Your mother was a nun who broke her vows and left the monastery to marry a man. This man, your father, was a poacher. He trapped and killed animals illegally! You have not only YOUR bad karma to make-up for but also the bad karma of your parents!"
I have never heard that we are responsible for the bad karma of our ancestors (ie) parents, etc.
Again, I am confused. Am I responsible only for my actions or do I also bear responsibility for making amends for the bad actions of my parents, etc?
0
Comments
Thus have I heard....
We have our own personal Karma to deal with and to transform by well-judged use of thought word and deed.... Though we must always remember the consequences can spread, as ripples on a pond and affect others....
A Country may have Collective Karma... as for example (and throwing no stones) Germany may have due to it's reputation of WWII.... The Germany of today is a very different one from the one existing in 1939 - 1945.... but unfortunately, there are still many who resent it and dislike it....
If a child misbehaves in class, and does not admit to their misdemeanour - and nobody else points the finger - the whole class may be subjected to a punishment meted out by the teacher.... Collective Karma....
But if another child DOES point the finger... then that child may have to deal with the consequence, and become unpopular and mistrusted; they may be victimised for having done what they believed was right.... personal AND Collective Karma....
Consider also that for example, you may be the child whose father murdered a neighbour. You may not be at fault at all. You may be completely innocent. But will others, less able to evaluate and judge the situation with clarity, see it that way? Will they not point at you and say, "that's so-and-so' son.... you know, the one who murdered....."
the stigma remains.....
So although you may not be responsible for what your parents do, the reputation of what they do may be something you have to live with....and deal with.... and by proving to others that you are a fine, upstanding, law-abiding citizen, you would deal, in a way, with 'your father's Karma' as well as your own....
Is this making ANY sense - ??
Others believe that it's an "action/reaction" belief.
Although, Fede's example shows that both of these could be true. People in some countries - who had nothing to do with the various atrocities of their parents - still deal with the karma or reaction of those actions.
I believe the different veins of Buddhism have different thoughts and practices regarding this.
-bf
That is an incorrect view of kamma.
Kamma is one's own volitional action.
Jason
Love,
Brigid
I think we're forgetting other Buddhist schools of thought.
I believe there are some Buddhist traditions that believe in paying for karma from previous lives and from our descendents.
Am I wrong in this?
Just trying to make sure all schools of Buddhism get a fair shake.
-bf
I understand that there are different ways to view kamma, but perhaps we are not looking at kamma in the right light. There is an inherent danger when we try to make kamma into something that it is not. Kamma is not meant to be seen as some metaphysical system of rewards and punishments. Kamma is a being's own intentional action of body, speech, and mind. Basically, what we do matters. There is kamma that leads one to lower rebirths, kamma that leads one to higher rebirths, and kamma that leads one to the ending of rebirth altogether. To believe that you must "pay" for previous kamma is not an entirely correct way to utilize this teaching. It is true that the results of past kamma ripen when the right conditions are present, but we can also do something about it. We are not trapped in inaction because we must repeatedly "pay" for some past action. If we had to do that, liberation would not be possible. We have been doing unskillful actions for countless lifetimes! The Noble Eightfold Path is followed just for this purpose of ending kamma:
Let us not foget Angulimāla, who after killling 999 people managed to become an arahant. His past kamma was heavy indeed. But, while on the way to murder his mother, the Buddha happened to walk by. Angulimāla tried to kill the Buddha, but found that he was unable to. Eventually, the Buddha converted him. While on alms, Angulimāla was attacked by an enraged crowd. But, he suffered through this attack as punishment for his past actions. It was certainly possible for him to escape this attack, but he did not in order to allow his past actions to bare fruit. With his intense practice, his beneficent kamma arose and destroyed former evil kamma. But, in the end, it was his own past kamma that he had to live the holy life to end, not the past kamma of others. While a person is certainly influenced by the conditioning of their parents, schools, culture, society, etc., it is their own intentional choices that is what we call kamma in Buddhism. No matter what they have picked-up over the years, it is what they intentionally do that shapes their future.
Jason
It is a set of reactions based upon past actions.
And there are different schools of thought regarding how much reaction you're going to have to deal with based upon
a) your actions
b) previous life actions
c) descendant actions
It's just what school of thought you follow.
-bf
All kamma is done in the present. All past kamma that we experience is called the vipaka (fruit) of such past kamma. Kammavipaka that we experience today is the result of past actions done either in this life, or actions done in some previous life. However, the actions of our descendants is neither our "kamma" nor our "vipaka". I am sorry, but I just cannot agree with you on that. As far as I have seen, that is not what the Buddha taught.
Jason
Just kidding....
I can't help feeling as if I've started something here....
Sorry guys, not intending to start an argument or nuthin'....
My own personal point of view is that we have enough karma of our own to deal with, without necessarily believing we are also responsible for the Karma of the Country as well... however, we surely try to "improve our collective lot" do we not, every time we cast a vote....?
We just want to do right by the people and follow or elect someone who will do good and make better.....
(......Maybe I shouldn't leap into Politics right now... the UK is not a good place at the mo' what with our Budget just being reviewed.....:bs:
Jason,
No worries... I'm not talking about what "I" believe...
I'm just saying that I believe there are Buddhist schools of thought that believe we also have to deal with kamma from whom we've descended from.
I'm basically just throwing this out to see if someone from a specific school of Buddhism supports or negates this claim.
-bf