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Love/Marriage
Being brought up as a middle class white suburbanite, I have always been fed some form of the American dream. In my case, not necessarily financial success, but rather marriage. I feel as though it is something that is expected of me for as long as I can remember. Keep in mind that I am only 16 years old. Everyone of my cousins over 25 is either married or engaged. That is almost all of them.
Throughout the years, I have heard comments about grandchildren and soul mates and destiny. (I believe in neither soul mates or fate) Yet I have little to no desire to get married when I am older.
Even at school I am criticized for not having a girlfriend. My messy curly hair is usually blamed and my lack of seriousness. But I see having a serious relationship at my age is ridiculous.
I am not sure why I see marriage as uninteresting and boring. For people like my parents and others, it is great.
Maybe I am just selfish or maybe I don't care because I have never been 'in love' (whatever that means). Perhaps it is that I am a bit anti-traditional.
Oddly enough, I love that soul jazzy black people love music. I listen to it all the time.
Anyway, am I just immature? Have I just not met that special someone (if such a person exists)? I am interested to see what the feedback is here!
Throughout the years, I have heard comments about grandchildren and soul mates and destiny. (I believe in neither soul mates or fate) Yet I have little to no desire to get married when I am older.
Even at school I am criticized for not having a girlfriend. My messy curly hair is usually blamed and my lack of seriousness. But I see having a serious relationship at my age is ridiculous.
I am not sure why I see marriage as uninteresting and boring. For people like my parents and others, it is great.
Maybe I am just selfish or maybe I don't care because I have never been 'in love' (whatever that means). Perhaps it is that I am a bit anti-traditional.
Oddly enough, I love that soul jazzy black people love music. I listen to it all the time.
Anyway, am I just immature? Have I just not met that special someone (if such a person exists)? I am interested to see what the feedback is here!
0
Comments
Good sir Knight,
You're only 16. In most states (you said "American dream", so I am infering that you are in the USA) you are too young to get married anyway. Don't rush it. The title of this post is Klingon for "Always Trust your Instincts" I am sure the Buddha did not speak Klingon, but I have always found this advice to be useful. Be true to yourself, first and foremost.
There is much to be learned here. There are many wise and caring people in this sangha, as I am sure you have already discovered.
I married at 22 and now at 40 I am miserable. I may disagree with the more learned here but I truly believe that there can be that "special someone". Do not rush. Trust your instincts. There may not be, but if that is the case you will be at peace with that. You must follow your own path, good sir Knight.
About the "immature" question... well... I am not going to answer that one. I have no place to do so. I would, however, suspect that you are more mature than you may believe yourself to be simply because you have the courage to ask such a question. Listen well to those who are here, and trust yourself.
-Q
marriage like anything else is impermenant. or so i feel.
a special someone yes!!! perhaps a few.!!!............will it last forever? no i dont think so.
will it last for 3 years, 5years, 20 years? who no's..
do we no........ how long our life will last, how long our homes will
keep us dry and comfy, how long you will enjoy your career/job.
NO.. life is a process, forever changing..
i have been married and with my husband for a total of 25 years or so.
do i love him? well i dont no.. does he love me.. well i dont no.
what i do no ..is we live in a box of love.. with two kids, we share
and make it work.. is that a successful marriage?? dont no......
i would have left years ago if i never had kids.
things , feelings , emotions , thoughts change and then our life changes.
therefor marriage cant be forever..
saying "i do" .. whew! " i do " to what?????
thats a heavy promise.. to live love and stay with your mate forever til
death do you part..and what ever else they want us to say..
how did i say / or promise those things to myself?
now in my 40's i wonder?
however.. im comfortable, and finding peace and happiness within myself
and my husband is beside me physically.
i dont think your nuts, i think your realistic.
dont give up the feelings of first love, and all that it will teach you .. that
is part of your process..
enjoy!! and live!!
marriage? well you decide when the time is right for you.
Well, that just plain sucks.
-bf
I've said this before on this post and I'll say it again...
I'm not going to mention age - because it has already been mentioned. I will say that:
High school is going to be one of the most difficult times of your life. There is a lot of crap going on with my, my friend. A lot of things you're going to be feeling and trying to sort out and such. What makes things worse is: it's not only YOU going through this but everyone else that you're hanging out with. Everyone may seem a little mental at times.
But once you get through High School. - I think you'll have a different view. High school can be one of those places where you realize wonderful dreams that come true - or feel like you're living in one of Dante's concentric circles of Hell for 4 years.
You may miss it or hate that you ever experienced it later in life - but just give it time. Relationships in High School are just as bizarre as the other behavior I've been talking about. Lots of people with raging hormones all experiencing love, fondling, anger, sex, desire, passion, etc. for the first time. Things are bound to get ugly at times
-bf
No, you are certainly not immature. Just young. I have a bit of a different view from some of the others on here. I personally think marriage is a wonderful thing. I am very lucky to have married my best friend. Our love gets better everyday.
However, you are so young. IMO, marriage is the last thing you should be thinking about while in high school. I think people get married way too young, or too soon in life. Maybe later in life, you will find the girl of your dreams, best friend, soul mate etc etc...and then you will change your mind about love and marriage. For now, I wouldn't worry about it. Just try to have fun and enjoy your life right now, in this present moment.
-bf
And here I thought you were starting to like me because you hadn't picked on me in a while.
The kid is just a kid. Let him get to his own mid-life crisis on his own.
HH
"midlife crisis"
change is change.. all the way
My family I believe thinks of me as a bit of an enigma. I incessantly ask questions about anything and everything. I am not content with just 'believing' in anything (God, Soul Mates, Afterlife...)
I don't mind. However, I have been wrongly accused of being 'not fun' because I fail to believe in destiny and happiness ever after and all that mushy stuff. I am realistic, not unfun. I have a very imaginative mind and I think a lot.
These are some of my most cherished qualities. The thing that makes me human and not just a man in chains watching shadows go by in Plato's caves. (are you familiar with that? I think it was Plato or Aristotle)
I know...A bit rambling.
Anyway, thanks for all the response!
Good sir Knight,
The day you stop asking questions is the day they should start worrying.
I hope my children will be as inquisitive when they reach your age.
-Q
Buddahfoot,
I am sure that you meant that out of compassion, so I shall proceed from that assertion.
Thank you. However, we must remember that it is only through the understanding of suffering that we can proceed to understand the Four Noble Truths, and thereby begin our journey along the Eightfold Path. Yes, it is unpleasant, but it is part of the order of the universe, and it is the means by which we are spurred along the path to the Dharma. (can you tell I've been "hanging around" Brigid ?)
Thank you for your concern.
-Q
I can't help it I disbelieve, God made me that way!!!
I have to say you remind me a lot of myself when I was in high school (yes, we actually had high schools way back then). I was completely uninterested in relationships then and hadn't a clue why others were so wrapped up in them. It seemed totally illogical. Of course, it still seems illogical to me, but then I'm something of an oddball! I didn't date, I didn't go to dances, I skipped my prom, and even today I don't feel the least bit like I missed out on anything. I was also a questioner. That's what drove me away from Christianity, because no one could answer my questions. So I don't see any problem at all with the way you are. Who cares what anybody else thinks? And my family had basically the same reaction as yours. I was an enigma, but they at least had the decency to leave me alone about it.
Palzang
I really loved that post. I thought it was wonderful.
K of B,
I'm going to call you Good Sir Knight, too. I like it. It makes me smile.
I can see why Querist would like his children to be as inquisitive as you are when they're your age. You have a good mind and I like the confidence you have. Wonderful, helpful quality, to put it mildly.
When I was fifteen I was all about relationships. I had one boyfriend or another until my mid thirties with a few breaks here and there. I had longterm relationships and short relationships. I had good relationships and bad relationships. I bought into the whole thing even while knowing deep inside that I didn't want children and I didn't want marriage.
I was never pressured by my family to get married. If I had been it wouldn't have made the slightest difference in my decisions. I went along with what my friends and popular culture told me was normal, but only on the outside. I got a lot out of these relationships and I have some very fond memories. But the most important thing I learned was that I was happier alone. Yes, gasp, it's true. I tried to pretend that having a boyfriend was the be all and end all of my existence, but it wasn't.
Luckily my instincts were strong enough to keep me unmarried and childless until I was old enough and had enough self confidence to admit that I really didn't want to be consumed in a relationship. Even at the height of trying to fool myself with all this "biological clock" nonsense something inside made me stay true to what I really wanted. And what I really wanted was some peace and quiet and time alone to figure out which way I was supposed to go. I got exactly what I wanted and found my path clearly marked in front of me. Rarely a day goes by when I don't look back on how close I came to succumbing to marriage and say "Phew! That was close!"
I never met "the one", thankfully. I don't even think he exists. I could have fooled myself a couple of times but my inner core is not nearly as foolishly romantic as my outer self was. I was always a little troubled by romanticism. Impractical romantic ideals and attitudes may be very popular in our culture but they're not solid enough to build one's life upon. And quite frankly I find the notion not only ridiculous but dangerous. Romanticism, no matter how much it is pushed on us by the popular media as being good, causes great suffering.
I see marriage as a partnership in life between two people who love each other, but more importantly, are committed to working together to build a mutually beneficial, shared life. I think it works if it's approached in a pragmatic, committed and realistic way with all issues discussed and agreed upon beforehand. Romanticism is fine if you can see it for what it is and laugh at it. Romanticism is human foolishness, deliberate self delusion, in which we place positive attributes onto another being that don't necessarily exist. If we are aware that this is primarily fantasy we won't be disappointed when our partner doesn't live up to it. But if we build a marriage on it, have children based on it, and spend years of our lives believing in it, the loss of our dreams can be devastating. We can waste a great deal of our precious lives in a fantasy world that exists only in our minds and when reality can no longer be ignored the awakening can be exceedingly rude. To say the least.
You're not immature. You're more mature than most adults. You're not allowing yourself to be pulled into romantic foolishness by your peers. You're pragmatic. Some people, who haven't had enough suffering to satisfy themselves yet, may find the pragmatic approach boring. But they're like people doing dangerous things on a dare when the wiser of us shake our heads and, knowing there's no way in the world to stop them, simply walk away unwilling to be a witness to the carnage. LOL!
I hope I haven't scarred you for life.
Brigid
Yes, it was out of compassion. To have someone make a statement that "I was married at 22 and now at 40 something, I'm miserable." sucks. I wish it weren't so. But, if wishes were fishes...
But, we must also remember that even though "life is suffering" - that doesn't mean that we should continue to walk in needless suffering or forgo or miss the joys of life.
Thus I have heard:
"Good monks, after walking to meet you to share my knowledge, I have found that I have broken this good sandal. Does this thing suck or not suck?"
"It sucks."
"Very good. It does suck because now I have to take time from my sharing with you to fix my sandal. After travelling all day today, my journey has left me tired and hungry. I would eat, but it is after the noon hour. Some food would stop my grumbling but goes against some teachings. Does this thing suck or not suck?"
"It sucks."
"Very good. I could really use some chow right now. I knew of a man who was married at 22 and now he is 40 and miserable. Though we endure many types and forms of suffering in this life, there is still joy to be found which should be acknowledged and appreciated. To be hitched with a hottie and not be happy - does this thing suck or not suck?"
"It sucks."
"Very good. A hottie, though impermanent, is still a hottie
-bf
My dear Palzang.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
-bf
keep it up and i'll throttal you
Have a nice dey!
Pazlagn
Hee hee...
I love you guys.
-bf
Wow. Thanks! In fact, I find my life much more enjoyable and less boring since I began thinking for myself and not just doing or believeing something because others do so. Peer pressure has almost no affect on me. For that, I am grateful.
Even before I knew anything about Buddhism, I had an inquisitive mind. I couldn't bring myself to believe in something because I had been told to do so. I felt a certain level of detachment from social popular culture. For a while, I considered myself abnormal.
That's why I became so fascinated when I found that some guy in India thousands of years ago had been asking the same questions about his life and coming to some of the same conclusions as I had.
I guess that is BF's polite way to telling me to shut up and stop complaining.
-Q
Good Sir Knight,
Please define "normal". If you mean "conforming to the established social and cultural standards" then yes, for the USA you are abnormal, but you must consider that the definition offered included a context in which it must be interpreted.
However, if "normal" bears a meaning closer to "functioning or performing in the manner most natural, or the manner for which something was intended" then you are not abnormal at all. In fact, you are more "normal" than most. Your mind was created to inquire and to think. Your heart* was created (figuratively) to feel. If you attempt to deny their innate functions by succumbing to dogma or by trying to dull your emotions then you are doing damage to yourself and likewise to those around you. We each must follow our own path. Yours may or may not include dating and marriage. Dyn bach, you are only 16 years old. My twin brother has a son older than you are. Take your time, good sir knight. You have your whole life ahead of you to explore. I wish I was where you are now at your age. I was trapped in generations of dogma and closed-minded thinking at your age. Celebrate your freedom and explore your world.
Your life is just beginning. Mine is ending. Live, explore, learn, and share. Do not give up.
-Q
* Please do not give me any grief about that one. I am a physician. I know quite well that the heart is a large muscle, etc. I was trying to speak figuratively, OK?
You're lucky! mine consider me an enema..
Xray:cheer:
I considered myself abnoramal in the sense that I truly believed something was wrong with me because I thought so differently than others. I then came to realize that normalcy was only an illusion in my mind whereby I criticized myself for not meeting the standards of society.
What is normal? It is a question with no answer that I will accept.. If by normal, one means to be like others, then that is simply copying the actions of others and trusting what they do is normal.
When I said I felt abnormal, I meant it in a social context.
Today, I do not think in terms of normal or abnormal. If anything, I see normalcy as an illusion of the mind to separate ourselves from those different than us. A way of saying we are good and 'normal' while others that are different are 'abnormal.' It is nothing more than a social barrier.
Good one
-bf
Well said, good sir Knight.
Remember, society itself is transient.
Find your place, or better yet, make it. You are here for a reason. Your mission, should your chose to accept it, is to determine that reason and then to fulfill it. Good luck.
-Q
LMAO!!!!!!
Brigid
....However, bear in mind that some of us have hit the half-way mark - and we still don't have a clue what to do with our lives - !!
In all seriousness though, I thought it was sad to hear a statement like that. I know I was married for 9 years and... it was awful. Not a fun way to go through life.
-bf
I'm well past the half-way mark. Well past it, and I still don't know what to do with my life. I'm too busy trying to survive at this point.
-Q
I'm sorry I misinterpreted you, BF.
You are correct, it's not fun. I do not like having to hide the fact that I'm on this forum or having to hide my Buddhist books in my office. (And, given that I'm in South Carolina, I need to hide them from my co-workers, too. ... and I thought that the USA was supposed to be a free country.)
I've been married for 18 years, and if it were not for my four children, whom I love dearly, I would have left a long time ago. However, I know that if it was ever known that I am frequenting this forum my wife would have no difficulty keeping me from having any unsupervised visitation with the kids. Yes, I am not kidding. It's built right into the SC laws about divorce that "spiritual upbringing" is one of the considerations in determining custody and visitation in SC divorce cases, and since this is "the buckle of tbe Bible belt", you all know what that means. :-(
I'm sorry. It is a very depressing topic for me, but I do not want to hide anything. This is my sangha. I should be able to be open here.
-Q
I can't really give you any advice except for maybe-Is there any possible way of reseeing growth and health in your relationship?
I have seen a great turnaround in my life/relationships with many people as well as my wife due to "retuning my thoughts". you can PM me if you wish to get some further advice-I think all of us here have a real good life experience "quota".
Even if we may be younger than you.
peace.
Xrayman
Xrayman,
I shall PM you, but your comment required a public response as well.
I have not, for a long time now, equated age with wisdom. I just wasted several decades following something other that the Dharma. That is hardly wisdom. I am just now catching up. I wish I had the sense that our very own "Knight of Buddha" has when I was his age. I would not be in this mess now. However, the existance of suffering is the first of the Four Noble Truths. Now that I recognize that I can proceed to learn, and in this sangha there are many compassionate and wise teachers who can help me.
Life is improving already.
-Q
Brigid
In the Matrix Revolutions, Smith explains to Neo how life is void of any purpose. Only delusions of the mind to try and validate our own existence. He incessantly asks Neo why he continues to fight and continue to live with no apparent purpose. Was it love, peace, salvation? Neo's simple response was because he chose to.
After watching this movie a few times (because I was really confused), I began to understand some of the philosophy behind the movies. And with much thinking, which I do a lot, I finally relized there was no ultimate purpose of life. Rather than being sad or frightened about this, it was more of a relief. I just want to make the most of my life that I live now because tomorrow it could be over.
:rocker: I try.:bowdown:
... I think I'm missing something here. And, yes, English is my native languge.
-Q
I'm missing something here, ZM. The fact that my life has no meaning is the cause of much of my suffering. Why should I bother living if life is meaningless?
-Q
and I apologise to those whose toes I may be stepping on, in an effort to put this down in basic terms.....
Trying to find meaning or purpose to life is in its own way, clinging to an ideal or a fixed 'human-level' goal... it's kind of taking your eye off the ball...it's looking at the finger, and not at the Moon....
As a Human Being, you function within a community - a sangha - the small (the family,) medium (your community) and large (the world in general) and as such, being a member, you interact with said levels in as good and productive a way as possible... Eightfold Path, five precepts and all that.... You follow the path to the best of your ability... You 'Do', you don't 'Try'...OK? That's a given... We all do that.....
But on a 'Spiritual' level, that which you seek is already here. You are immersed in it already. you are it. But it's even finer and more "pinhead" than that.... It's just.... What it is. It is the Natural Great perfection which is to simply be, and to see things as they really are....
It's like literally watching it all unfold as if you were detached and watching a film of you and all you think/say/do/experience..... It isn't who 'you' are.... 'You' are far more subtle and simple than that..... Just Be.
If this makes any sense, maybe I haven't explained it right....!!
Makes perfect sense to me, thanks fede! :bigclap: Not that that's a great endorsement, considering the fact I'm totally bonkers! :buck:
Sas