Certain Meditation Certain Thought

ThailandTom

It is often said that there should be no goal in meditation, that there is no goal in buddhism and that the path is the goal. Anyway, I know that we all conduct a sitting meditation for some reason or other. My question is this, if you are in the midst of a sitting meditation where you are trying to focus your mind and tame that monkey mind you are so say meant to let each thought arise and then go. Now today I was meditating and a thought came but it was a thought of insight. It was related to why I act or feel a certain way because of certain conditions and actions. Now if I were to acknowledge the thought and let it disolve just as it had arisen, would that kind of be missing out on something? What if I were to carry on with the thought and link it with other such situations and gain a deeper understanding of how that all linked together...

driedleaf

Why you act or feel a certain way because of certian conditions is a healthy thought, but even healthy/good thoughts will pass. It is only unwholesome thoughts, or thoughts that cause bad karma, are the thoughts we want to take caution. Once we realize that it is an unhealthy thought, we should think about doing good karma, or move on to the next thought.

ThailandTom

Maybe I am trying to trying to look to deeply at something that does not require such scrutiny. I guess I am viewing meditation in a very 'textbook' manner, that if you are trying to liberate the mind you should not dwell on thoughts during meditation as they arise. But is that not where a lot of wisdom comes from, simply viewing the mind and gaining insight into how it functions with the body and the surroundings?

taiyaki

14th century Mahamudra Master, Dakpo Tashi Namgyal:
"When you look into a thought's identity, without having to dissolve the thought and without having to force it out by meditation, the vividness of the thought is itself the indescribable and naked state of aware emptiness. We call this seeing the natural face of innate thought or thought dawns as dharmakaya.
"Previously, when you determined the thought's identity and when you investigated the calm and the moving mind, you found that there was nothing other than this intangible single mind that is a self-knowing, natural awareness. It is just like the analogy of water and waves.

Thrangu Rinpoche:
"Although one recognizes the cognitive lucidity or the lucidity of awareness within emptiness, there are different ways that this might be recognized. For example, someone might find that when they look at the nature of a thought, initially the thought arises, and then as the thought dissolves, what it leaves in its wake or what it leaves behind it is an experience or recognition of the unity of cognitive lucidity and emptiness. Because this person has recognized this cognitive lucidity and emptiness, there is some degree of recognition, but because this can only occur for them or has only occurred for them after the thought has subsided or vanished, then they are still not really seeing the nature of thought itself. For someone else, they might experience that from the moment of the thought's arising, and for the entire presence of that thought, it remains a unity of cognitive lucidity and emptiness. This is a correct identification, because whenever there is a thought present in the mind or when there is no thought present in the mind, and whether or not that thought is being viewed in this way or not, the nature of the mind and the nature of every thought is always a unity of cognitive lucidity and emptiness. It is not the case that thoughts only become that as they vanish..."

-from "who am i"

ThailandTom

Thank you Taiyaki. A glimpse at emptiness. There is only really one direction to be going and that is to the floor and sitting I would assume.

taiyaki

Yeah if you can. But even being mindful at this moment is special.

To see how thoughts when not focusing on content are just empty appearances. We can't find them. Can't even say when they appear and when they disappear. Can't even grasp at them. And the thought claiming anything about the previous thought is just another thought.

Whether in a state of confusion or clarity it is of same essence. Which is the lack of essence. Yet all appearances pop in and out.

This is occuring whether we are meditating or taking a shit.

Jeffrey

If a thought is important the clarity* of the mind will bring it back...

As you practice you will shift from letting thoughts go to letting them be. In effect you are not following the thought and seeing what it says. You learned to let it go. But you are not trying to make it go away either. On your outbreath at this point you are mindful of the breath but you also welcome any thoughts or feelings in your body.

Most often either you get caught up in the thought or the thought drifts off with no 'tearing' yourself. If you get way caught up I still feel a little 'tearing' and blaming of myself. But I am working on that. Blaming just adds dullness or agitation. If you can feel grateful and happy that you drift back that confidence helps in the meditation stability.

As you have these recognitions, say about your uncle john or fred, even though they drift away... in meditation these recognitions rather than becoming a data you memorize they will become a part of you.


*clarity of mind: a quality of mind that is always there and that we don't need to create or destroy. When we see we are confused it is the clarity of mind that allows us to see 'as confusion'.

ThailandTom

Thank you both, that is quite a bit to consider for me especially as it is gone 3am right now. I will look at it with a fresh mind tomorrow.

possibilities

Blaming just adds dullness or agitation. If you can feel grateful and happy that you drift back that confidence helps in the meditation stability.

@Jeffrey Hmmm. This, your insight, made me instantly think of your parking lot dilemma, mentioned in another thread. In that case blaming yourself (for being in the way it seems) also dulled your perception and ability to act with the confidence that you describe here and would have been able to rely upon otherwise..... (Just touching on this briefly.)

Sorry, Tom, don't mean to hijack this, just saw the connection where possibly meditation meets real life situations.... About your own question, I am not a seasoned meditator, so I have no advice.

Jeffrey

@possibilities, I think so yes. It did dull me and agitate me.

Hubris

I wonder, Tom. That is a good question, because those "epiphanies" (aka the Aha! moments) we have, whether during meditation or not, can be life-altering, and if it were me I think I would tend to bear it out a bit more than letting it go, since with most people they are rare.

Of course, since I have ADD, something like that might not be "let go" because I might forget it later, and then regret having let it go. It's happened to me. This is not to say we should keep a notepad next to our cushions, though honestly, I might! :eek:

Does that mean you're "doing it wrong"? Maybe, however if it is something that can help you improve upon your life,self,relationship, or practice, how is it not then useful?

What would Buddha say?

Lady_Alison

I think of my monkey brain as a noisy roommate...sometimes I have to tell her she owes me half the rent and needs to clean her side of the apartment. Sometimes I listen to her incessant complaints with compassion and put up with her loud music.
And sometimes, I get up and dance with her and laugh with her.