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Are the buddhist playing hard to get?
Hey guys!!!
Belated "Happy Saint Patricks Day" Considering I am Irish thought I had to put that in there!
Another question for ye?
I am involved in or sort of anyway - Soygal Rinpoche's Rigpa group. Ive been in & out of Buddhism, so to speak for about five years now, more in than out!! This Rigpa group and especially the involvement in Tibbetan buddhism is the one I am most "at peace" with.
There is so much not explained if you want to be involved in Buddhism and I don't understand why? What's the secret? Why isn't there a simple Buddhism explanation for everything?
There are plenty of general books on Buddhism, plenty of courses etc, but they all leave you a bit in the dark, still. Honestly, I must have about 40 books on various aspects of Buddhism, about 15 C.D.'s with audio books, chants, guided meditations, etc and god only knows how many buddhist sites bookmarked on the net but ... Im still at sea with the basics.
I am getting to the stage that I can explain detailed teachings on fairly weighty buddhist phlosophies but I dont know the basics.
For example at the moment in the Rigpa centre and in all the Rigpa books/pamplets/information I get, Ngondro is mentioned, but, what is it? I even bought a book a "Dictornary of Buddhist terms" and alot of things (I assume which are specific to a particular buddhist practice) are missing.
Also, I recieved after sending off for it, a Rigpa Study guide - in it it says that you shouln't copy or share any part of this guide with anyone, why?
I know with other information I get they ask you to burn booklets etc rather than discard them? Why? In this day and age shouln't we be recycling?
Why doesn't some one tell you all the basic stuff? What's the secret?
In some ways I thought it was fairly good because at least they aren't making huge efforts to convert you. It's a bit like, if you want to find out .... we will make it really difficult for you .... so when you do ... we know your really intrested! Is this a spiritual version of "playing hard to get"
Honestly it does bug me, it almost makes me feel like all this is a bit cultish?
Can anyone help please, its making me frustrated.
Belated "Happy Saint Patricks Day" Considering I am Irish thought I had to put that in there!
Another question for ye?
I am involved in or sort of anyway - Soygal Rinpoche's Rigpa group. Ive been in & out of Buddhism, so to speak for about five years now, more in than out!! This Rigpa group and especially the involvement in Tibbetan buddhism is the one I am most "at peace" with.
There is so much not explained if you want to be involved in Buddhism and I don't understand why? What's the secret? Why isn't there a simple Buddhism explanation for everything?
There are plenty of general books on Buddhism, plenty of courses etc, but they all leave you a bit in the dark, still. Honestly, I must have about 40 books on various aspects of Buddhism, about 15 C.D.'s with audio books, chants, guided meditations, etc and god only knows how many buddhist sites bookmarked on the net but ... Im still at sea with the basics.
I am getting to the stage that I can explain detailed teachings on fairly weighty buddhist phlosophies but I dont know the basics.
For example at the moment in the Rigpa centre and in all the Rigpa books/pamplets/information I get, Ngondro is mentioned, but, what is it? I even bought a book a "Dictornary of Buddhist terms" and alot of things (I assume which are specific to a particular buddhist practice) are missing.
Also, I recieved after sending off for it, a Rigpa Study guide - in it it says that you shouln't copy or share any part of this guide with anyone, why?
I know with other information I get they ask you to burn booklets etc rather than discard them? Why? In this day and age shouln't we be recycling?
Why doesn't some one tell you all the basic stuff? What's the secret?
In some ways I thought it was fairly good because at least they aren't making huge efforts to convert you. It's a bit like, if you want to find out .... we will make it really difficult for you .... so when you do ... we know your really intrested! Is this a spiritual version of "playing hard to get"
Honestly it does bug me, it almost makes me feel like all this is a bit cultish?
Can anyone help please, its making me frustrated.
0
Comments
Send it to me!
To quote my mother-"You are like your Grandmother-You'd read the CornFlakes packet while it's still on the store shelf-if you were allowed!" don't throw any of that sort of material away-give it to the salvation Army-let them throw it away! teehee. (stupid Joke-I know).
looks like you've done a lot of Theoretical investigation, but perhaps not as much in the actual-doing Buddhism. Good for you, you probably (in fact-most likely) know more than I do about Buddhism.
I don't think it's a bit Cult-like, just many schools and temples have different interpretations of the path.
For instance, My wife thinks the replacement toilet seat i purchased for $6 to replace the broken one, "looks like shit" and "Why did you put it onto our pristine toilet bowl?" while I consider it to be "Saving my hard earned cash" and "replacing something that could potentially ruin my manhood-if it got caught"-see interpretation! that's all.
kind regards,
Xray
There is, but you keep avoiding it.
I looked up the site ... Are you suggesting I "Dont just do somthing - sit"
Let me explain something here ... my personality not subtle ... S P E L L T H I N G S O U T P L E A S E !?!
Thanks for your help though
As for the toilet seat though ... mine is rather cool ... its clear plastic with nuts and bolts and razors in it.... Makes me laugh !!! Lets call it "toilet humour" So what does that say about my buddhist sensibilities?
I found this link that explains what ngondro why practitioners do them, and what benefit they have.
There are many resources on the web, as you know, some good some bad. This is a good forum to ask...
Peace
Grainne, you're not a ding bat anymore than any of us are. In fact, you're doing what most people do for a while. But it really is very very simple. You're avoiding what you know and you know what you're avoiding. There's nothing mysterious about it. The real mystery is how much effort, sleight of hand, self deception and sheer imagination it takes for people to ignore reality. Reality, Truth, whatever you want to call it, is not at the end of some path in some secret box waiting for you to find some secret key - it's the one thing that needs no explaining because it's so obvious and it's right in front of you right now. It is after all what's real.
Try asking yourself just one question and that is, "What's really true?". That's it, that's all! But keep asking and keep digging through whatever bullshit your mind throws up as an answer or whatever other people try to give you as an answer. When you think you've got it, go further.
Yesterday evening's episode found him here and he was illustrating the different levels of the temple, their functions and how each level had to be 'mastered and understood' before Monks and Disciples could make it to the top... at which point he presumed they attained enlightenment...
But he kept going on about how difficult the path is, and how so few people ever made it to the top because the way to enlightenment is fraught with difficulties and obstacles....
And I had to disagree, in a way...
Whilst our Perception will tell us that Enlightenment is difficult to achieve, and that the Way is fraught with difficulties and obstacles, if we would just once stand still and just BE.... It is the simplest thing in the world....
The climb of this temple is entirely symbolic... And just as anyone, with the Right Effort and attitude, can make it to the top and sit amongst the 92 mini-stupas, so can anyone, with Right Effort, attain enlightenment.
You just have to let go.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Its not buddhism in general I am finding confusing. I do meditate and I do find it helps to clear my mind.
However, we do live in the real world and even buddhism has its practical side. Its the day to day stuff that I cant seem to get the answers to. I know all the answers are in you and I know that me needing answers to what seems like the mundane side of things, seems like grasping.
I suppose what I am trying to say, is while it frustrates me, it could stop other people from persuing their journey with buddhism any further.
Am I making myself any clearer?
I simply break it down to its bare minimum essential. The Four Noble truths, the EightFold Path and the Five precepts.
My entire life revolves and hinges on my being Mindful and living by these in as skillful a way as I can.
All else is simply grist to the mill. There's no point being all hung up about it....
It's like the story of the Three Monks who want to get to the nice warm sandy beach but they are separated by a wide band of sharp stones and pebbles.....
The first is of the opinion that each stone and pebble should be individually wrapped in wadding and soft cloth. Then they wouldn't hurt.
the second says they should weave a long and wide carpet, and throw it over the stones...
The third simply says:
"Why don't we just put our sandals on?
We can't always have an effect on what's "out there" and we can't always change what's "out there"...The best and only logical place to make changes is on and in ourselves.
Those who would like to change the world should start with a small Garden....
All anyone can do is their best. The rest must also do as they see fit.
Does this help at all?
That's what I was talking about, not Buddhism.
I think Nietzsche sums this up best with this:
A great deal of Vajrayana aims towards flying. In this respect, we have to spend a long time with remedial standing up Buddhism which is about 90% cognitive therapy while the rest touches on the actual teachings of the Buddha as found in cannon.
By the way, a great book worth a broken piggy bank is Mind in Buddhist Psychology by Guenther and Kawamura. It is a translation of Ye-shes rgyal-mtshan's The Necklace of Clear Understanding.
Love ya all,
Bobby
Grainne,
You probably won't find many answers to your questions in books. In Vajrayana, there are many things regarding the practices that are done that are kept secret because you need empowerment to practice them. Revealing them to those who do not have the empowerment could be dangerous to them. It's not that it's so secret. It's just out of compassion for those who don't have their minds prepared to receive these particular teachings. In other words, these practices can be dangerous in the hands of those who don't know what to do with them.
Ngondro means "preliminary practice" in Tibetan. These are the practices that one does before one can do higher practices, such as tantra. Ngondro, depending on the tradition you're in (and in the case of Sogyal Rinpoche, that's Nyingma), consists of four or five accumulations of 100,000 repetitions. The first is Refuge where you accumulate 100,000 prostrations to the Three Jewels. The second, in Nyingma anyway, consists of 100,000 repetitions of the Bodhisattva vow (this is combined with refuge in some schools, such as the Kagyu). The third accumulation is 100,000 repetitions of the mandala offering. Then comes 100,000 repetitions of the 100 syllable Vajrasattva mantra, which is a confessional practice. Finally is Guru Yoga (devotion to the lama) where you do 100,000 repetitions of each syllable of the Guru mantra, or 1,200,000 repetitions of the mantra (it's short). The idea of ngondro is to clear your mind of the obscurations which make it difficult to do the higher practices. It takes quite a while to accomplish but it's well worth it.
The reason you burn booklets or whatever with Dharma in them is out of respect. It is disrespectful to toss them in the garbage like ordinary trash. The same goes for pointing the bottoms of your feet at an image of the Buddha or a teacher. It's considered very disrespectful. You also should never lay practice books directly on the floor for the same reason. Always place something under them, like a pillow or a cushion.
It seems like you're not attending a Rigpa center but rather getting stuff through the mail. Is that correct? If you were to go to a center they would explain all these things to you directly I'm sure. Certainly we would do so for any new practitioner.
If you have any more questions, please ask. I'll try to answer. I also practice in the Nyingma tradition.
Palzang
Thank you so much.
Brigid
I have, maybe three months ago started attending a Rigpa centre and I was at a 2 day thing at the weekend with Maxine Sive, an English senior instructor under Sogyal Rinpoche. It was about how to study Buddhism in general but particularly the Study pack (Menga ... spelt wrongly perhaps ... study pack) that has been introduced by S. Rinpoche.
It was immensley beneficial and maybe for the first time I got what people have been saying on the message board, especially that you get what you need when you need it.
Maxine also explained the importance of study, how do do it, how to meditate specifically on study etc. What a help honestly. I think if I had done that course ages ago, i might be a little further along by now.
The Rigpa centre is very good here in Cork and I am finding it very helpfull. I am currently doing a ten week course on The Eight verses of the mind. I probably should just do as many courses as I can.
I suppose the problem for Westerners, especially those who were brought up in another religion like me, (Catholic) is that we are more used to a structured system. Buddhism, is structured I know, but not in the same way. This message board really helps. Thanks alot.
Im not wholly "at peace" with the original question I asked but I am getting there. Thanks guys.
Oh Palzang ... Another question .... The three year retreat that is being offered in Learb Ling in Europe with options for home study, Im sure you've heard of it? Your in the States, are ye doing something like that or is it just being pursued in Europe at the moment, what do you think? How far advanced should you be to even think about it.
Big hugs ... honestly, ye really are a help.
G
Wow!! Very nice! You've done a lot of work. I'll be starting soon at the Shambhala Center here in Canada (Ottawa) with teachers under Sogyal Rinpoche as well. I'm very excited and can't wait.
I'm so very happy for you that you've found the guidance you were looking for. It's a wonderful thing. There'll be no stopping you now! LOL!
Congratulations! I hope to be exchanging stories with you soon about our shared Buddhist tradition and meditation methods. This is all very exciting and full of hope.
With love,
Brigid
I'm not familiar with how the three year retreat at Lerab Ling is structured, but in general I'd suggest a strong basis in the fundamentals in addition to at least getting a lot of meditation under your belt before even thinking of going on 3 year retreat (though I don't know how the home study option works). 3 year retreat where you actually go to the retreat is intense, and if you're not prepared for it, you'll probably not make it. Best to take one step at a time and to find someone, a more advanced student or authorized teacher, who can advise you on what steps to take and when. Otherwise you could easily bite off more than you can chew and end up falling off the path or cracking up or whatever (yes, it does happen). Not to scare you, but just take it, like in the 12 Steps, one day at a time.
Here in the US we have a one month retreat in the summer given personally by H.H. Penor Rinpoche that is a great opportunity. If you could possibly make it to that, I think that would be of great benefit to you. It's held near Binghamton, New York, usually in August. I don't know if that's something you could swing or not, but it'd be well worth it if you could as they start out with ngondro and work up all the way through Trekchet and Togyal (Dzogchen practices). Got to www.palyul.org for more info if you're interested.
Love,
Palzang
You wont believe it .... was at my Eight Verses of the Mind course last night and we ended up talking for a bit about the three year retreat.
The three year retreat as I understand it is a retreat for those who want to go to Learb Ling and be in retreat (apparently there will be 300 full time retreatants in Learb Ling) but the home study option is really a home study course as opposed to a retreat.
Firstly you have to apply to the course/retreat and your teacher will interview you. They then have a secure email to Learb Ling and Rinpoche to ensure he knows where everyone is at.
Rinpoche is going to be staying at Learb Ling for six months of the year giving teachings, every day!!!!
For those intrested in the three year retreat/course, home study option, you must commit to doing so much study (which can include your meditation practice) per day. Rinpoche is trying to get people to committ to four hours study a day. However if that is excessive for you your allowed commit to one hour a day with the view to building it up to four hours over the three years.
There are also several other committments you must make but one which incudes that you must attend one of the ten day retreats with Rinpoche himself every year. You can choose to follow him and do it any where in the world. We have been very lucky in Ireland and he has come to here almost every year for a summer retreat to Dzchogen Beara (West cork about 5/6 hours away from Dublin the Capital) With his new committments to Learb Ling, Im not sure if he will continue to be able to do that.
The way our senior instructor explained the Three year retreat is, is that Rinpoche is recommending that if you are committed to the Buddhist path then this is the next logical step. He wants to very strongly recommend that if you are committed to Buddhism than you should do your best to commit to this course.
Our instructor suggested that this retreat/course is supposed to be inclusionary rather than exclusionary and the idea of the interview is to try and make a way for your life and the retreat to fit togther.
Which brings me to a question: I have a New York friend living here who is interested in doing the three year retreat/course but wanted to know about your centre in New York? Is there a website for it? I think he wanted to do his ten day retreat in New York because it may be an easier option for him, it gives him an opportunity to fit it in around visits home, I suppose rather than encurring extra expenses. So I told him that you had mentioned this and I would ask you!!!! So dear, consider yourself asked!!!
Thanks again for all your help guys!
G
The address of the New York retreat center is http://retreat.palyul.org/index.html. Beautiful site in upstate New York.
Keep us informed of what happens with your retreat!
Palzang