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Discontent...Is it so bad?

Throughout my life, I have often heard that having good perspective and being content with what we have rather than what we want is a very good thing. For the sake of personal happiness, I am inclined to agree with this statement. But is discontent all that bad? Doesn't society's general discontent with the world we live in and the things we have/don't have actuallly help advance our human civilization. Is discontent what truly brought us out of the caves?

I have pondered that although discontent often does not bring about personal happiness, it can motivate us to change things. Would we have democracy had we been content with tyrannical monarchies? Would we have light bulbs if we were all content with candles? If we were satisfied only with the minimum or nothing at all, where would we be as a civilization?

Just some food for thought but I'm interested to see the responses.

Comments

  • edited March 2006
    There's a difference between acceptance, which is what Buddhism points to, and laziness, passivity or complacency. Acceptance means that you see things as they are and live harmoniously with that. However that also means that you see where things may need changing, and what is most appropriate for you to do in that situation. Sometimes that entails standing up for greater justice or equality, or "speaking truth to power".

    On a smaller, personal scale, this means also that we don't simply ignore our own discontent or disatisfaction, the Dharma is not about supression but insight. There is also an understanding that one's economic, and by implication, political well being are important factors and should be attended to with care and attention.
  • edited March 2006
    It depends on how you view your disontent. If you are happy being unhappy and do not do anything to better the situation, then I would have to say that it is 'a bad thing'.
    However, unhappiness can be a lesson in life and a very positive one. Choosing to fix your unhappiness can lead you to many wonderful things. It led me to Buddhism.

    PS I think that is what Genyru was saying....sorry.
  • edited March 2006
    Sharpiegirl, you might be surprised (or maybe not) at how many people actively cling to their own unhapiness. Your remark about "happy being unhappy" reminded me of that.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2006
    "If you have a problem, and you have the solution, there's no point wasting further time worrying about it....

    If you have a problem, but you have NO solution, there's no point wasting further time worrying about it."

    A couple of things here....
    For my part, the important is to view whatever the problem is, and it's effect on you on two levels:
    The Practical and the Emotional. Linked though they may be, they are nevertheless, separate....
    Let me give a hypothetical example....

    two children of your neighbour's have had their basketball net fixed up on their garage wall, by their yard. This is right next to your garden, specifically where you often sit to eat 'al fresco' or just to enjoy the sunshine, and read a book....
    All hours of the summer days, all you hear is the bounce bounce thud, swish bounce bounce bounce of this damned ball...together with the kids yelling and having a good time....

    What effect does this have on you?
    Firstly, the noise levels are unacceptable. they are constant, insiduous and completely distracting, and prevent you from enjoying a calm and peaceful interlude ouside.

    Secondly, you're getting mad. Resentful. Crabby and impatient. With your loved ones, and with the kids too....It gets to the point where you feel it in your stomach... and every time you go out there, even if it's quiet, your enjoyment is spoiled by the constant worry of 'when will it all start up again anyway?'

    So you deal with each situation calmly. You have a word infront of the kids, with the parents, and come to a compromise on time and hours... could they avoid certain times? Could they limit the hours they spend playing? is there any wahy you could come to an agreement, and explain why?

    On an Emotional level - that's your problem to address. Nobody can alter your mind-set but you. How you take things like this is your responsibility. You may be able to communicate your frustration, and it may gain you sympathy, but it won't help your case much....

    So even though the Practical actions and solutions possible mean we don't have to be a complete idiot about it, such situations also help us to address our perceptions and emotions, and to watch them arise and deal with them accordingly. Whatever the cause, they are ours to control and do with as we will....How we do that would be a measure of our resignation, complacency and williness to take charge - of the situation, and of ourselves.

    It's also true, on a second point, that some people wallow in their misery... It's one way of gaining attention... I call them the Yes But what If's....You strive really hard to listen to what ails them, and meet their problems with practical solutions, but they strongly resist these, by coming up with responses prefixed with - "Yes, but what if this happens?" or - "Yes but, what if he does this...?"

    They'll parry and resist at every turn... and that's when you know you have to leave it....

    Man, if I had a dollar for every person I'd met telling me that - Hell! I'd be in the Bahamas on an extended vacation - !!
  • edited March 2006
    Without an initial sense of discontent/suffering...there would be no search for peace. External or internal. While the noise of the children are bothersome...the point that becomes important to me is ask myself 'Why do I feel this way'.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited March 2006
    ZenMonk's post (both #2 & #4) explains it far better than mine....
  • edited March 2006
    Great posts! My issue is that I have a problem trying to accept things as they are, and to be happy with things as they are, but also trying to make those same things better. Does that make sense? This is the only good example I can think of right now...so bear with me. A lot of people are unhappy with their physical appearance. But, it's important to be happy with who you are and to accept yourself for who you are, so how do you set goals, etc, to make yourself better, but ALSO be happy with how you already are??
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited March 2006
    Sharpiegirl, you might be surprised (or maybe not) at how many people actively cling to their own unhapiness. Your remark about "happy being unhappy" reminded me of that.

    I think that's what some cases of "depression" might entail.

    -bf
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited March 2006
    Yoda,

    This will probably not sound very Buddhist - because I don't know how Buddha's teachings address vanity - not that changing your looks or appearance is all vanity. But, some of it can be vanity.

    If there is something you can change - change it. Is it wrong to become physically active and strengthen your body? I don't believe so.

    But, there should come a point of acceptance. Wishing that I had the body of a 21 year old stud is probably just an unrealistic as wishing I had Brad Pitt's face.

    There are things you cannot change and you have to learn to accept that. Find peace with it and find peace with who you are.

    I believe, that just as in meditation, you will notice or realize things and you accept them for what they are. To cling to the desire of trying to become something that you physically cannot do - causes suffering.

    My $0.02 at least.

    -bf
  • edited March 2006
    Using your example:

    At one point I was very overweight and very happy with who I was. It was only when I saw myself through the eyes of others, or experienced rejection, that I would become 'unhappy'. Fat, but that was the way it was. My diets failed...but I was happy with who 'I' was. Then I started to suffer the physical ramifications of that weight...my body was speaking to me. As a precious vehicle, I realized that my happiness had to take a backseat to the wellbeing of my body...as it was necessary to be healthy and strong to benefit others/my family. I went on a diet, and made changes in my life (set goals) based on listening to the needs of others. I benefitted, but my view was not based in personal happiness.
  • edited March 2006
    I see what you are saying....so, instead of having a goal of "I wish I had so-and-so's body...", the goal should be more like "I will get up to exercise 5 times a week and eat healthy"...or something like that. I am a lot more peaceful with myself than I used to be, but it still needs work! :) I have read so many times on here and in Buddhist books, etc that you can not help others to be happy unless YOU are happy with yourself. So that's my first step.

    So, it's ok to have goals to be healthy, right? Does that make you vain??
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited March 2006
    Harlan,

    You have a great example.

    You were happy when you were overweight - with yourself. You might have experienced pain when you met rejection through other people's eyes - but within yourself - you were happy.l

    Now... we know being overweight can cause health issues. So, even though we're happy being overweight - is this still the best thing to do? Some people are happy to drink their lives away - becoming removed from family members, punishing their bodies, etc.

    As for working out and eating healthy - I think that's fine too. But, I've known people that have taken working out and "being healthy" to such extremes (OCD) that they really are NOT healthy. They're abusing their bodies, pushing way past it's limits, not giving it time to heal, not putting the right fuels in it to promote healing and health. I believe that this is just as bad as abusing it through other avenues (drinking, smoking, overeating, etc.)

    Moderation - the Middle Path. I even think the Kalama Sutra can come into play regarding this.

    Is my "activity"/"current state" good for me? My family? My loved ones? Does it lead to benefit and happiness?

    I believe these are things we can meditate or reflect upon. I honestly believe that if we look at ourselves with honesty and truth - we know the things we are doing that are positive and those which are not.

    I'm probably rambling here.

    -bf
  • edited March 2006
    I'm the last person one should listen to. But I think that goals are good for most people. At a certain point, I wonder when someone should move away from even the initial desire that prompts positive movement/change.

    For example, compassion for others should be there with no desire to accumulate merit, as even the desire for something known to be positive is actually in the way.

    Does that make sense?
  • edited March 2006
    BF - you may be rambling, but it all makes sense, and you are making some good points. I agree with you about people that are a little bit OCD about working out and being "healthy". The goal that my husband and I have is basically "Eat super healthy, and exercise 5 times a week so that we can live a long, healthy life and be there for our daughter as she grows up." My husband used to tell me that I was a little obsessive about working out, but I am much better now. Now I do yoga and run, almost daily, but if I miss a day, I don't fret about it.

    Thanks for your post...it has been helpful. These "lessons" can also be applied to so many different examples when it comes to accepting others and striving for a better world at the same time.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited March 2006
    harlan wrote:
    I'm the last person one should listen to. But I think that goals are good for most people. At a certain point, I wonder when someone should move away from even the initial desire that prompts positive movement/change.

    For example, compassion for others should be there with no desire to accumulate merit, as even the desire for something known to be positive is actually in the way.

    Does that make sense?

    I think goals are good to have too.

    I don't think Buddha teaches that we sit in complacency.

    Even Buddha realized, before reaching Enlightenment, that sitting, meditating with the ascetics, was not condusive to what he was looking for. He realized that extremes were not good and if the body was weak - one couldn't pursue a "path". It was after this realization that he recognized a Middle Way.

    Even monks who live among themselves have daily tasks that must be performed either for themselves or for the community they are part of.

    Yoda - I would say that if I were you - I wouldn't fret about missing a day of working out. I agree with your hubby. Missing things that are really insignificant shouldn't be a cause of worry or fret.
    Missing time with loved ones, helping others, telling those you care about that you love them - those things I could see fretting about. But I'm sure I'll be reminded that even fretting about these sorts of things is not "the middle way" :)

    -bf
  • edited March 2006
    I really do fret about too many things in general!! :)
  • edited March 2006
    Are we not getting discontent muddled with with greed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with aspiration or ambition as long as it is measured. What I mean by measured is that as long as you are not harming yourself or those around you it's fine.
    However there are issues I have over discontent that center around aspiration and society. I personally believe that the masses have a right to assert themselves when they are being downtrodden by the man. Elbowing oneself to the front of the cue is a must if you are starving.

    HH
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited March 2006
    I agree, HH.

    On a global scale, discontent has resulted in many of the major positive social changes that have come about in history. If African Americans had been content with their situation all the advances made by African Americans today would not have occurred because the opportunity to make those advances wouldn't exist. The same goes for women etc., etc., etc.

    Harlan, I agree with you as well. On a personal level discontent is an opportunity to have a good look within.
    Without an initial sense of discontent/suffering...there would be no search for peace. External or internal. While the noise of the children are bothersome...the point that becomes important to me is ask myself 'Why do I feel this way'.
    I couldn't agree with you more about this.

    Brigid
  • edited March 2006
    Bridig,
    You old leftie.

    HH
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited March 2006
    Why, thank you, Herman!! :)
    (And I'm on slow dial-up, too!)

    Brigid
  • edited March 2006
    "slow dial-up" do they still have that in canada. Is it a retro fashion thing....?
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited March 2006
    No, no, no! Not a rotary phone! My internet connection is dial-up, 31.2 kbs. I'm not on broadband like some people.

    Brigid
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