My Holden Caulfield moment.

still_learning

Growing up, I had a friend who I admired and wished I could be like. He always knew what to say to people. Whenever he spoke, he had good gravitas, and people listened. He always seemed confident, and always knew what to do. He was the leader among my group of friends. He was also very confident that he "knew" people, and could read them like a book.

During college, we went to different schools, but kept in touch. Slowly, I started to have different opinions than he did. I was getting more and more conflicted and doubted myself because he had always been right. I was understanding social interactions better. At this point, even when I thought he was wrong about something, I didn't make a fuss about it. As I became more confident about what I knew about people, I started to out-right disagree with him, to correct him. He probably didn't like that. Near the end of college, we drifted apart. I thought he was just busy because he was so popular. I thought he was hanging out with the many other friends that he had.

A couple of years down the line, I found out that he was flat out wrong about a lot of the things he talked about. All the cool people that he was supposedly hanging out with turns out weren't that close with him. Talking to other people, I found out that a lot of the statements and judgements he made about individuals were completely wrong. So basically, I found out that he was a "phony." It confirmed my suspicions I had when we were in college. Whereas Holden Caulfield took this type of realization badly, it helped my confidence a lot. Maybe because it wasn't as sudden since I had prior suspicions that my friend was wrong.

From then on, I started noticing how other adults that I looked up to were wrong, and that I was right. The responsibility of "doing the right thing" was transferred to me.

One advantage I had was that I really liked science and tried my best to examine things as objectively as possible without any biases.

His confidence only took him so far. Eventually people saw through his misinformation. I don't see him around anymore, but I am grateful to have known him, because I did learn a lot from him and because of him.

taiyaki

Lovely!

That is the emptiness of persons.
You now realize that everything was an imputation/perception from you and not at you.
Your friend is empty of any inherent characteristics or quality, thus embodying infinite potentiality.

At first he seemed like this, but later he turned out to be like this.

Both are projections from mind on a referent (friend)!

You can only see what your karma projects.

still_learning

"You can only see what your karma projects. "

very interesting. I'll be pondering that.

Lady_Alison

I love your thread. It resonates with me because I, too, grew up looking up to a genius...no kidding! His iq is off the charts...but I later learned that people are humans and it's never good to put them up on a pedestal or idealize them because you will be theonly person hurt when they fall.

The important thing is that you have managed to turn out so well as you can clearly reflect on what happened.

I think if he ever comes back in your life you should meet him, if you need closure. You clearly have identified why this person came into your life.

Aren't. You a better, humble, andcaring human being...thanks to him.

Jeffrey

You might like the book, A Separate Peace. It doesn't discuss false or phony people rather it talks about two friends who had different natures. It's not really about phony or clueless people it is just is about coming to terms with our differences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Separate_Peace

Plot summary

Gene Forrester, the protagonist, returns to his old prep school, Devon (a thinly-veiled portrayal of Knowles' own alma mater, Phillips Exeter Academy), fourteen years after he graduated to visit two places he regards as "fearful sites:" a flight of marble stairs and a tree by the river. First, he examines the stairs and notices that they are made of very hard marble. He then trudges through the mud to the tree. The tree brings back memories of Gene's time as a student at Devon. From this point, the plot follows Gene's description of the time span from the summer of 1942 to the summer of 1943. In 1942, he was 16 years old and living at Devon with his best friend and roommate, Phineas (nicknamed Finny). At the time, World War II is taking place, and has a prominent effect on the story.

Gene and Finny, despite being polar opposites in personality, become fast friends at Devon: Gene's quiet, introverted intellectual personality complements Finny's more extroverted, carefree, athletic demeanor. During the time at Devon, Gene goes through a period of intense friendship with Finny. One of Finny's ideas during Gene's "Sarcastic Summer of 1942" is to create a "Super Suicide Society of the Summer Session," with Gene and himself as charter members. Finny creates a rite of initiation by having members jump into the Devon River from a large, high tree. He also creates a game called "blitzball" (from the German blitzkrieg) in which there is no winner.

Following their period of intense friendship was a period of intense one-sided rivalry during which Gene strives to out-do Finny academically, since he believes Finny is trying to out-do him. This rivalry culminates (and is ended) when, as Finny and Gene are about to jump off the tree, Gene (possibly) purposely jounces the branch they were both standing on, causing Finny to fall and shatter his leg. Because of his "accident", Finny learns from the doctor that he will never again be able to compete in sports that are most dear to him. The remainder of the story revolves around Gene's attempts to come to grips with who he is, why he shook the branch, and how he will continue to go forward. Gene tells Finny that he caused Finny's fall. At first Finny does not believe him and afterward feels extremely hurt.

During a meeting of the Golden Fleece Debating Society, a debate/trial organization that Brinker Hadley set up, Gene is confronted about the "accident" by Brinker, who accuses Gene of trying to kill Finny. Faced with the evidence, Finny leaves shamefully before Gene's deed is confirmed. On the way out, Finny falls down a flight of stairs (the ones Gene visits at the beginning of the novel), and again breaks the leg he had shattered before. Finny dismisses any of Gene's attempts to apologize at first, but he soon realizes that the "accident" was impulsive and anger-based. The two forgive each other.

The next day, Finny dies during the operation to set the bone. The doctor summarizes that Finny died when bone marrow entered the blood stream, and stopped his heart during the surgery. Gene does not cry over Finny, but learns much from how he lived his life, stating that when Finny died, he took his (Gene's) anger with him. In Finny's death, Gene could finally come to terms with himself.

Lady_Alison

I think you need polar opposite friendships or even marriages to grow.

According to the Myers brigg psychological personality assesment test...there are 15 different personalities.

Sounds like op is introverted and friend was extroverted.idk

still_learning

Thanks all for replies. Good discussion.

I have read A Separate Peace, and did a "book report" (remember those?) on it. It was a very thought provoking book for me. At the time, I could not relate to it, I was never a competitive person, and I never had a friend who pushed my buttons. But to be honest, I was jealous of my friend once in a while, but it was never intense enough to be lasting. From my experiences up to now, I can understand better what that book was about. It is disturbing to me because I could imagine myself being the Gene character, hurting someone out of bitterness. That would be me, a few years ago, but not now. I can't say for certain, but I really can't imagine myself doing something like that now.

@Lady_Alison, you're exactly right. I am introverted. I was so quiet that once, someone in college told me to my face that I was anti-social. I took offense to that because it just sounded so negative. But after a while I was okay with being a little anti-social, because knowing so many people can be very tiresome, and is more trouble than it's worth. I love my small group of friends.

I totally did put my friend on a pedestal. I've learned that very very few people in this world deserve to be on a pedestal. I am now much better at seeing beyond people's facades to their flaws thanks to this friend.

15 personalities, color me interested. I've always been interested in learning about people's personalities. I've recently read about Narcissist Personality Disorder, and those traits sound scary and disgusting.

Lady_Alison

Myers brigg does not diagnose disorders so don't worry.

Jeffrey

still_learning, yeah I did a book report also on a Separate Peace. I felt that Gene was hurting and he acted out that pain on the tree limb.

Zero

Looking through people at their flaws is a challenge and an important point but if that is your entire focus then all you will find is flawed people - what could come of collecting flawed people?

Looking at yourself may expose flaws too - perhaps if one can deal with personal flaws, there would be one less flawed person out there or at least a few less flaws.

still_learning

Nope, that is not my entire focus.

And yes, I also look at myself to expose my own flaws.



I try my best to see people without my own biases on them and as well as their own biases on themselves. I usually compare what they say they'll do with what they actually do later on. Some people put out a lot BS to project for you an image of themselves that they would like you to see. I'm trying to see beyond that image.

I have also done a lot of self reflection and analysis. I've questioned myself many times as to why I do the things I do, and whether I am true to myself if I say or do certain things. I've looked at my own weaknesses and flaws, and tried ways to mitigate them. I've gotten to a point where I try to say what I mean and mean what I say all of the time. My speech and language end up sounding very simple and plain, so I don't get any points for sounding fun or exciting. But at the end of the day my shoulders feel very light from knowing that I didn't try to manipulate anybody's perception of me, and that feels great, not just good. That is more important to me.