What does refuge mean to you?

Jeffrey

Wally B thank you and a interjection,

Doesn't studying Dharma eventually or potentially at least save us from anger, ill-will and so forth? I guess there's the study of Jesus turning over the money changers tables, but then Buddha had the vinaya and rules for laypersons?

I think there are differences of course. In Christianity studying is in the context of a personal relationship with Jesus. In Tibetan Buddhism there is some commonality.

This would make a good topic, I'm trying to think how to phrase. Ok I'll cut and paste and then ask a question..

So we were examining a topic in Bothi's thread, Natural truth, which he was kind enough to post.

I was trying to understand what refuge in Buddha meant. Here is what I think it means in Mahayana:


Buddha brought Dharma into the world and the Dharma is being transmitted by beings to other beings. I have heard that at the a bodhisattva can see the Samboghakaya which is Buddha. I understand the Samboghakaya to be the 'seeing?' of Awakened Mind - transcendent truth, as it becomes to the beings as right view is my guess.

federica

Refuge - for me, alter the word refuge' to Trust, and I think that's what I do.
I trust the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha to be the rocks in my existence.

Lady_Alison

Personal relationship with God through cultivating awareness, prayer, good deeds...etc...but my refuge is meditation.

weighted

I think that everyone will have a different definition of and relationship to refuge. For some of us, we find refuge in meditation, metta, the four noble truths, the dharma. I think for me refuge is kindness and love which are all interrelated phenomena that speak to practice, mindfulness, and sticking to the precepts.

vinlyn

And some (not me) consider it to mean literally going to a sangha.

Lady_Alison

@vinlyn...you side stepped the question!

PARTICIPATE!

vinlyn

@LadyAlison...actually I put a "like" with federica's post...closest to my belief.

Lady_Alison

@vinlyn...that's lazy! Lol...no golden star sticker for you.

vinlyn

I try not to be attached to being ambitious!

RichardH

I like the idea of the Dharma being the rock of my existence. Taking refuge started out as a statement of faith in what the teachings point to. Then over time the teachings get confirmed in experience bit by bit, and that faith becomes confidence.

There is also the friendship of Sangha... a kind of a social rock.

Arjquad

I see refuge as allowing the teachings to impact and change your life.

Dakini

re + fuge = to run back to. Not sure how you get "trust" from that, except by implication.

Jeffrey

What do you mean by that Dakini? I didn't understand.

Dakini

Just giving the etymology of it. "fuge" from Latin, fugere, to run. "re", meaning repeat, return.
edit: @ Lady_Alison Yes, sanctuary is good. But in Buddhism, it's called a "refuge vow", not a "sanctuary vow". hmm..."sanct", as in "sanctum", sacred place.

Lady_Alison

@dakini and Jeffrey ...how about "sanctuary" instead of refuge?

Jeffrey

I think the understanding of refuge (in the triple gem) changes with the practitioner. I don't think it's just a mirage that is different for everyone, rather I think that if we take the view that a Buddhist path exists then there is a progression. Examples such as stream entry and the five accumulations.

I respect islam practioners like Lady_Alison to and I shouldn't/can't speak for them or for buddhism.

Lady_Alison

Yeah...jiffy...the word means many different things...I see it as solace, home, sanctuary, temple, holy place...

Dakini

I like what Richard H said. Refuge, a place of safety and support. Faith of any kind is a refuge, no?

I respect islam practioners like Lady_Alison to and I shouldn't/can't speak for them or fold them into buddhism.

I'm intrigued by the Sufi-Buddhism connection, similarities. I hope we find out more over time.

Lady_Alison

So why do they use thy word.

Anyway, what is the problem with it..if you don't like it, use another word.

Lady_Alison

Yeah...I guess faith is...but the refuge or place is done by actively returning to a state of prayer.

So maybe running or returning is not that far off. Idk...am I wrong.

Jeffrey

Yes. The question I asked was 'what does refuge mean to you'. In my own thinking about the thread I was trying to understand what it meant in my Sangha. Which is important to me as I have not formally taken refuge. To the extent that I can divulge my heart I would say that in my heart I have taken refuge.

Dakini

Yeah...I guess faith is...but the refuge or place is done by actively returning to a state of prayer.

I love this.

Lady_Alison

Jiffy...so you take refuge in your heart? What does that mean?

Dakini

I think it means his heart takes refuge in the Dharma.

Jeffrey

And prayer is always available as part of the nature of mind. Good idea to take refuge there. That opens some questions though such as what essence of prayer IS always there for us? I think there is always something to pray for.

Jeffrey

Yes, that's what I meant, Dakini

Lady_Alison

Prayer,like meditation, is action.

You do it inside your "refuge" or the best temple in the world.. the body.

Faith is just a word...I guess it means trust.

But the action is what is important.

Lady_Alison

Prayer isn't "begging " or wailing.

It's art, meditation, quiet moments, loving kindness, pursuits of knowledge, science, nature, concentration and present awareness, feelings and actions of gratitude, inner peace as a state of being.

Just a few.

Jeffrey

Sometimes we are trying to get this moment, when in reality we already have it. Shamata - calm and looking right here on the dot at what we are doing. What we seek we do have in the mind that is seeking.

Lady_Alison

@Jeffrey...well said!

Lady_Alison

I need to remember what you said, jiffy. I have been grasping at the present moment instead of relaxing into it.

Dakini

It's art, meditation, quiet moments, loving kindness, pursuits of knowledge, science, nature, concentration and present awareness, feelings and actions of gratitude, inner peace as a state of being.

This is a definition of prayer I can relate to.

Dakini

Don't look now, Lady, but you just gave me an idea for a thread.

Zero

Wow - I read the prayer thread first - its like watching the prequel... now i get it....

For me, taking refuge is 'taking responsibility for myself'.

Dakini

For me, taking refuge is 'taking responsibility for myself'.

So you're your own refuge?

Yeah, this thread inspired the prayer thread.

Lady_Alison

@zero...don't you sleep? Lol. Or do you do what jaffa 's do...are you carrying a symbiote?

Zero

the taking of the responsibility itself is the refuge

Jeffrey

Buddha said to be a light unto yourself, 'study hard monks for all composite things decay.'

Zero

:crazy: I dont sleep too much and no early start tomorrow! I've been reading stuff...

caz

By taking refuge in the Buddha/s we recieve inspiration and blessings of the accomplished ones, By taking refuge in the Dharma we make an island of ourself able to accomplish the meaning of our precious human life, By taking refuge in the sangha we have spiritual friends to help and guide us in our study and development of Dharma.

By reciting the Refuge prayer Daily and many times we remind ourself of our purpose and the benefits that arise from this refuge practice.

" I and all sentient beings untill we acheive enlightenment go to refuge to Buddha, Dharma and Sangha" x3

federica

re + fuge = to run back to. Not sure how you get "trust" from that, except by implication.

I wasn't considering the etymology, but if someone bullies you, you don't trust them when they call you. A mentor you rely on and look up to, you go back to, time and time again, for mentoring and refreshment of teaching.

Good enough?
I think so.

taiyaki

Seeing the union of the three bodies.
Thus refuge is absolute confidence in this.