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Quiz Time - The Three Dharma Seals

buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
edited April 2006 in Buddhism Basics
What are the Three Dharma Seals?

Why and what importance is placed upon them regarding the teachings of Buddha?

You can post your answers on Friday.

Unless you're Palzang - then you can do whatever you want - you little anarchist you.

-bf

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2006
    *Cracks knuckles*

    Oooooh! My fave!! can't wait!!


    But I guess I'll have to, huh? ;)
  • dkodedkode
    edited April 2006
    oooohhh. knuckle cracking... cringes :)
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2006
    I'd crack my knuckles, but they're sore from dragging the ground.

    -bf
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited April 2006
    Is it friday yet?

    :scratch:

    _/\_
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited April 2006
    I was just informed that it is, in fact, NOT Friday yet.

    In the meantime I will post these links for your reading enjoyment:

    http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/ebdha007.htm

    http://www.denverbuddhism.org/three_dharma_seals.asp

    http://buddhism.about.com/cs/theravada/a/Marks.htm

    http://www.shambhala.com/html/learn/features/buddhism/basics/three-marks.cfm

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanaponika/seeingthings.html

    "LIFE IS STUDY!!"
    -Golden Boy

    _/\_
    metta
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2006
    buddhafoot wrote:
    I'd crack my knuckles, but they're sore from dragging the ground.

    -bf

    LMAO!! Funny, I thought you'd be taller....!!
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2006
    My height isn't the issue....

    It's all the extra testosterone in my system.

    -bf
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited April 2006
    Not1,

    Nice mix of links there!! You're good (said with a little awe). LOL!

    Thank you!

    Brigid
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited April 2006
    Brigid wrote:
    Not1,

    Nice mix of links there!! You're good (said with a little awe). LOL!

    Thank you!

    Brigid

    Your very welcome. :) I must confess though; I just did a google search and picked out a few that looked good.

    :D

    _/\_
    metta
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited April 2006
    Oh.

    LOL!

    Brigid
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2006
    No, no, you've got it all wrong! This is the true Dharma seal!
    j03545551ch.gif

    Palzang
  • MrsKarmadilloMrsKarmadillo
    edited April 2006
    :lol::lol::lol::lol:
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2006
    I think we've found the level....:D
  • MrsKarmadilloMrsKarmadillo
    edited April 2006
    Monk with a crazy sense of humour......... scary! :lol:

    (Or is it, crazy monk with a sense of humour....?)

    :D

    Sas :buck:
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2006
    It's the latter - thanks for pointing that out MrsKarma... :)

    -bf
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited April 2006
    Who's crazy?!!! :crazy:

    Plazing
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2006
    < just humor him... we don't want some crazy monk coming in here with an AK47 and going postal on everyone...>

    -bf
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2006
    Who looks like Hermione....:crazy: :lol:
  • MrsKarmadilloMrsKarmadillo
    edited April 2006
    federica wrote:
    Who looks like Hermione....:crazy: :lol:

    LOL!

    *runs away*.......................... :lol:
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2006
    Three Dharma Seals:
    Impermanence (anitya) Non-Self (atman) and "The extinction of all Notions" (Nirvana).

    Discussed at length by the venerable TNH, and something I went into, as the last topical post in 'the Heart of the Buddha's Teachings' book thread.

    The first I have understood and accepted completely, for quite some time now...
    The second, I'm getting my head round, and learning to understand (discussions on anatta and the 5 aggregates have actually helped enormously!) and -
    The third is a million lifetimes away, but if I just reach out, my fingertips can stroke it's welcome....
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2006
    Thanks for that Freddie.

    Could you post what the "other" Three Dharma Seals are? I know in "Heart Of Buddha's Teachings" - the author stated that in a different "view" of Buddhism - there was one item listed as being different from the three stated here.

    Impermanence
    Non-self
    Nirvana.

    So, THN is saying that in any teachings we find - these three "guidelines" are there to help us interpret the teaching at hand. If the teaching doesn't support these three items - it probably doesn't fall within the teachings of Buddha.

    -bf
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited April 2006
    Is it Friday yet?
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2006
    not1not2 wrote:
    Is it Friday yet?


    No.

    -bf
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited April 2006
    buddhafoot wrote:
    No.

    -bf

    Crap :(
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2006
    Oh.... alright.

    It is Friday.

    Come on in.

    -bf
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2006
    Yes it is..... It is 5:15pm on friday.....jump in, N1N2!!

    BF...Do you mean the 8 concepts, the 2 relevances and the 4 standards of truth? :)
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited April 2006
    What?.... :confused:

    You mean, it is Friday?... Why, buddhafoot? Why did you lie to me??! WHYYY?!


    Anyways, I just realized that I have been making an error. The three dharma seals are not the same as the three marks. 'The three marks' are aspects of conditioned existence. The 'three dharma seals' are what characterizes a buddhist teaching. Here's an article on the subject by Thich Nhat Hanh.
    The Three Dharma Seals
    Thich Nhat Hanh

    Every authentic teaching of the Buddha must bear three Dharma Seals: impermanence, non-self, and nirvana.

    The first Dharma Seal is impermanence. Nothing remains the same for two consecutive moments. Heraclitus said we can never bathe twice in the same river. Confucius, while looking at a stream, said, "It is always flowing, day and night." The Buddha implored us not just to talk about impermanence, but to use it as an instrument to help us penetrate deeply into reality and obtain liberating insight. We may be tempted to say that because things are impermanent, there is suffering. But the Buddha encouraged us to look again. Without impermanence, life is not possible. How can we transform our suffering if things are not impermanent? How can our daughter grow up into a beautiful young lady? How can the situation in the world improve? We need impermanence for social justice and for hope.

    If you suffer, it is not because things are impermanent. It is because you believe things are permanent. when a flower dies, you don't suffer much, because you understand that flowers are impermanent. But you cannot accept the impermanence of your beloved one, and you suffer deeply when she passes away.

    If you look deeply into impermanence, you will do your best to make her happy right now. Aware of impermanence, you become positive, loving and wise. Impermanence is good news. Without impermanence, nothing would be possible. With impermanence, every door is open for change. Instead of complaining, we should say, "Long live impermanence!" Impermanence is an instrument for our liberation.

    The second Dharma Seal is non-self. If you believe in a permanent self, a self that exists forever, a separate, independent self, your belief cannot be described as Buddhist. Impermanence is from the point of view of space. When we look more and more deeply at the notions of self, person, living being and life span, we discover that there are no boundaries between self and non-self, person and non-person, living being and non-living being, life span and non-life span. When we take a step on the green earth, we are aware that we are made of air, sunshine, minerals and water, that we are a child of earth and sky, linked to all other beings, both animate and inanimate. This is the practice of non-self. The Buddha invites us to dwell in mindfulness in the concentrations (samadhi) of interbeing, non-self and impermanence.

    The third Dharma Seal is nirvana, which means "extinction," the extinction of afflictions and notions. Human beings' three basic afflictions are craving, hatred and ignorance. Ignorance (avidya), the inability to understand reality, is the most fundamental of these. Because we are ignorant, we crave for things that destroy us, and we get angry at many things. We try to grasp the world of our projections, and we suffer.

    Nirvana, the extinction of all afflictions, represent the birth of freedom. The extinction of one thing always bring about the birth of something else. When darkness is extinguished, light comes forth. When suffering is removed, peace and happiness are always there. Many scholars say that nirvana is annihilation, the extinction of everything, and that Buddhists aspire to non-being. They have been bitten by the snake of nirvana.

    In many sutras, the Buddha says that although ascetics and brahmans describe his teaching as annihilation and non-being, that is not correct. The Buddha offers us nirvana to rescue us from attachment to the notions of impermanence and non-self. If we get caught by nirvana, how will we ever escape?

    Notions and concepts can be useful if we learn how to use them skillfully, without getting caught by them. Zen master Lin Chi said, "If you see the Buddha on your way, kill him." He means if you have an idea of the Buddha that prevents you from having a direct experience of the Buddha, you are caught by that object of your perception, and the only way for you to free yourself and experience the Buddha is to kill your notion of the Buddha. This is the secret of the practice. If you hold onto an idea or a notion, you lose the chance. Learning to transcend your mental constructions of reality is an art. Teachers have to help their students learn how not to accumulate notions. If you are laden with notions, you will never be emancipated. Learning to look deeply to see into the tue nature of things, having direct contract with reality and not just describing reality in terms of notions and concepts, is the practice.

    Take care all.

    _/\_
    metta

    BTW, I love your new hairdo, buddhafoot
  • VacchagottaVacchagotta
    edited April 2006
    I suspect that in most traditions the three marks are also called The Three Dharma Seals. To avoid confusion we could rename the thread to "the three marks"*.
    When you see with discernment,
    'All fabrications are inconstant' —
    you grow disenchanted with stress.
    This is the path
    to purity.

    When you see with discernment,
    'All fabrications are stressful' —
    you grow disenchanted with stress.
    This is the path
    to purity.

    When you see with discernment,
    'All phenomena are not-self' —
    you grow disenchanted with stress.
    This is the path
    to purity.-- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/khuddaka/dhp/tb0/dhp-20-tb0.html#dhp-277
    Further:
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/anguttara/an03-134.html

    I wanted to add to the discussion that the three marks are very closely related in Buddhist teaching and proceed quite logically one from the other, beginning with impermanence, and we could say culminating in the Buddha's ultimate and most insistent teaching, the mark of anatta or not-self. We will treat them progressively, giving an example of the Buddha's reasoning of their relationship for each one, then giving an overview.

    Anicca/Impermanence:

    All arisen things are subject to change and dissolution. Anything that is created is liable to destruction. The Buddha teaches that whatever is impermanent is by that virtue also suffering, and also on that account non-self. Why it is dukkha can probably only be treated by recognizing that physical pain and death (that is to say, not only mental sufferings) are included in the Buddha's definition of suffering. Pain and death, however, are inevitable in connection with impermanent existence, and so we see that what is impermanent is by nature liable to suffering. How suffering relates to non-self we will treat below under "Dukkha". But the Buddha gives an explicit reasoning on the logical connection between impermanence and non-self: what I can perceive to arise and pass away cannot be myself (because I, "myself," did not pass away in the process):
    "If anyone were to say, 'The eye is the self,' that wouldn't be tenable. The arising & falling away of the eye are discerned. And when its arising & falling away are discerned, it would follow that 'My self arises & falls away.' That's why it wouldn't be tenable if anyone were to say, 'The eye is the self.' So the eye is not-self.
    -- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/majjhima/mn148.html

    Suffering/Dukkha:
    "Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; association with what is not loved is stressful, separation from what is loved is stressful, not getting what is wanted is stressful. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are stressful.
    -- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/anguttara/an06-063.html#part-6

    Some people do not always see the reasoning in the next connection, that what is suffering should be recognized as non-self. The reasoning goes as follows: The Buddha's teaching is always geared towards its goal; the eradication of suffering, the liberation from suffering. If anything liable to suffering were my self, I would never ever be able to escape suffering, because I myself would be essentially, as part of my nature, tending to suffering. There would be no eradication of suffering possible. The Buddha states it thus:
    That impermanent thing is it unpleasanat or pleasant? Unpleasant, good Gotama. That impermanent, unpleasant, changing thing, is it suitable to be considered, that is mine, that I be, that is my self? No, good Gotama. Aggivessana, a certain one clinging to unpleasantness, over powered by it, pressed down by it and reflecting it's mine, would think it's my self. Would he accurately understand unpleasàntness by himself or ward it off and abide? Good Gotama, how could it be. No, good Gotama, that would not happen.
    -- http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/2Majjhima-Nikaya/Majjhima1/035-culasaccaka-sutta-e1.htm

    Anatta:
    The culminating teaching of the Buddha's ti-lakkhana (three marks) doctrine is essentially that we come to suffering for clinging to and identifying with what is non-self (and also impermanent and suffering) as "myself", and that whatever can be rightly seen as non-self should be put aside, and we should rid our passion in relation to it:
    "What do you think, monks — Is form constant or inconstant?"

    "Inconstant, lord."

    "And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?"

    "Stressful, lord."

    "And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: 'This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am'?"

    "No, lord."
    ....
    "Any consciousness (and so with the other four khandhas) whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every consciousness is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

    "Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with the body, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"
    -- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/samyutta/sn-22-059-tb0.html

    So we see how recognition of the three marks are pivotal in the Buddha's teaching and the path to Nibbana.



    in friendliness,
    V.

    *I don't know if anybody is "wrong" here, but just a note that TNH's article is just about the only material a simple internet search could come up with which discusses the three dharma seals as anything other than the three marks, amidst many which discuss them as the ti-lakkhana. TNH's conception of the three seals is quite interesting because by including Nirvana alongside impermanence and non-self, there is an attempt to ensure that the student does not see life from a nihilistic point of view, which would be quite possible in the face of impermanence and non-self with no possibility of liberation.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited April 2006
    I finally got my book and looked this up.

    In Thich Nhat Hanh's "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching: Transforming Suffering into Peace, Joy and Liberation" the author states:

    The Three Dharma Seals (Dharma mudra) are impermanence (anitya), nonself (anatman), and nirvana. Any teaching that does not bear these Three Seals cannot be said to be a teaching of the Buddha. 1

    1. In the Southern Transmission, the Three Dharma Seals are often said to be impermanence, suffering (dukkha), and nonself. But in the Samyukta Agama, the Buddha taught impermanence, nonself, and nirvana as the Three Dharma Seals.

    This is what I was referring to in an earlier post.

    -bf
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited April 2006
    Sorry, BF... Should have looked it up too.... :)
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