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Confused: When Meanings Contradict
ajani_mgo
Veteran
When your life starts to get your meaning of life destroying one another, what do you do? When you have two options, both as hard and important choices to your own life, what do you do? When incidentally you let a friend down by breaking up a relationship by misunderstanding the woman, what do you do?
I shall start by cooling down, and defining my interpretation of karma in my context.
"An effect of memories and feelings associated with the memory that will in the future become a cause to trigger some very funny, unwanted effects."
Great. I am ready to continue. Let me start from what is called the beginning of the issue.
One fine night I heard something from Girl 42 in a casual conversation with me and another guy, who happens to be the girlfriend for Argon for about a few months now. They have went through many challenges, most of which is the painful choice of Argon to choose between either his friends or the girl.
And thus I had heard, " I don't know... I think it won't last forever." Girl 42 refers to her relationship with Argon.
I was beyond disbelief. I would never have thought that this could possibly be. They were the "sweetest couple" in everyone's eyes, their love bonded strongly.
"What!!? Do you know how sad Argon would be if he knew? So why do you continue on the relationship?" I asked.
"I don't know... Enjoy while it lasts..." she says.
After that night I gave serious thought to what Girl 42 said. I decided never to tell Argon, for I was sure that I would cause a rift in their relationship. I trusted that Girl 42 would change her attitude towards relationships.
And so time passes until last week.
Argon faced serious difficulties in their relationship, as Girl 42 thought seriously for the first time on conversion to Islam in the future, something she could not possibly accept. Argon, deeply worried and in a way hurt, sook help from me and many others online.
She sent a SMS to him that perhaps it would be true, that they could never last forever. Argon thought painfully, heart-broken as he recounted to me the sequence of events. That was when I thought, I had the duty as a friend to tell him about the conversation.
I sincerely believed then it would allow Argon to make a choice on the fate of their relationship. That night they broke up for good, not just another unimportant lovers' tiff but yes, for good.
I had faith that I had prevented Argon from further suffering. Argon had felt as if his emotions had been played with. Perhaps me and him are old-fashioned or something, but we feel that one should like, then love once and that's it for life. A long-term relationship till death we both ask for, even though our feelings might not be mature yet. Personally I think that it is in relationships that start from simple, mutual liking to mature, unconditional love, and that being teenagers is no excuse for being a "short-term relationship" person. If it was, it would be to like someone for the sake of liking someone. Liking should develop into unconditional love, isn't it? I do feel that even among adults, they still behave like teenagers when they get into relationships.
But, as with part of my way of life, I always believe that relationships are something that should live on as memories after they die, and not like how others treat them. You may call me stupid, impractical or even over-sentimental, but this is me, reasoning for my cause with my logic which I think is indeed logical. Most people I look at seem to compliment their partner when they are in love endlessly, raising their strengths and accepting their flaws when tey are in relationships. But yet all this seems hypocritical, an even-funnier fairy tale, when the relationship ends and the guy seems to do nothing but pick on the girl, wonder why he ever fell for her, picking on nothing but her flaws and poisoning her reputation as if it is a cardinal sin for the grl to break up with the guy. I find it all too stupid and being an insult to the word Love they use itself, when actually Love is so much more purer and being unconditional than Liking itself. I must however clarify, I do not say that I have understood Love, myself being only understanding Liking. It is clear to myself however, I understand what is Love NOT.
Although I am speaking confidently about what would never happen to me, I still think that after a breakup, one should NEVER forget the memories but instead simply forget the feelings associated with them. One should never treat the girl with disdain and destroy her reputation unless it is the truth, when in most cases it is never.
Thus I as a friend of Argon had to tell the other friends of Argon why the relationship we thought would last an eternity failed. I initially said nothing, simply the cause being a "fundamental flaw from the start", that being a "difference in their mindsets towards relationships. But I strongly asserted that although she was the party to initiate the breakup, it was neither of their faults. I felt that I needed to defend Girl 42 from those who did not understand the issue. Argon was still, and is still, recovering from a failed relationship gone miserably wrong, and I, being the one who saw it from start to end, had to argue for it from an impartial view. But soon people questioned about the fundamental differences I spoke of, and I told them about her lacking commitment. However I still stood by the fact that it was "fundamental differences" that neither party should be blamed for. As with all news, people quickly associated it with feelings, and saw the girl as being "heartless" and all kinds of things sprang up. I could not argue further and the sentiments grew and worsened.
It was in the light of such events that I told Argon that there had to be a desperate need to conclude the entire relationship. I said that I would do it for him. I did not like the idea of things being uncorrected, strings left untied, felt a need to give the girl a complete overview of how I felt as an impartial third-person, instead of what the general public felt, and was deeply fearful of misunderstanding Girl 42 if I had ever.
It turned out that I had. In fact, I had misunderstood her so much, that I could in fact BE the one who had broken the sweet couple up. Really.
When I was doing the whole conclusion, she told me something which was a great shock and caused major guilt to me.
She had changed.
Sometime after she had held that conversation where she said "Enjoy while it lasts" she would have started to think about the relationship becoming long-term. And then she started to ponder upon issues - conversion etc. She started to want the relationship to become long-term.
Yet I had told Argon that she had no wish for commitment. I had thought that such fundamental mindset differences had to mean a breakup. But I had told Argon the total falsified information, and led him onto the breakup. What had I done? I apologized profusely to both of them, for I told them that I had broke them up really.
I asked both of them separately if they wished to be together. Both of them have now set their minds up onto moving on, which is usually good. But not if you had broken them up.
Both said "what has been done has been done." But I cannot help but feel guilt. This was a couple meant to last FOREVER! And this argument absolutely does not work for me, because it just seems like an excuse to my total ass of a wrong move.
Girl 42 tried to relieve me of some guilt when she told me that it was all her wrong move all along. She should never have dated a Muslim guy, for she in the end would not accept conversion.
But... To me it's so much a difference! I mean, this is simply a challenge in their relationship. I do not think it is even easy to solve, but yes, as they have always, I think that if they are still together now they can solve it through their strong love for each another. This is contrasted with my dumb mistake of the "fundamental difference", which showed that this was a couple never meant to be together. It meant so much of a difference, and if I had supplied the correct information, the karmic Effects would be so different from the same Cause.
I feel absolutely guilty now. I know that this will set in me as some hard-wired karma to affect my belief and attitude in the long-term, but I cannot forgive myself for this. For now there are 2 things in life I consider important I must take into consideration:
(i) Love - How I Actually Broke Up Love Itself
(ii) Hypocrisy - How I Actually Could Forgive Myself For Breaking Love
I am in a complete dilemna now. I believe that nobody can understand absolutely how I feel now, not even a renowned cognitive psychologist, unlike he or she happens to have the same beliefs to life as me, and also face the same events as me.
I have two choices:
(i) Forgive myself and destroy the karmic effect, but seem like a total hypocrite
(ii) Not forgive myself and not seem like a hypocrite, but allowing the karmic effect to stay
I do not know what to decide. My beliefs and attitudes towards life seem to reason myself wrong no matter which one it may be. There is of course a last alternative, that is for them to patch up, but that is simply PLAIN DUMB.
I have requested for Argon to follow-up with a post to capture what I have missed and also give you his point of view. Please help me!
I shall start by cooling down, and defining my interpretation of karma in my context.
"An effect of memories and feelings associated with the memory that will in the future become a cause to trigger some very funny, unwanted effects."
Great. I am ready to continue. Let me start from what is called the beginning of the issue.
One fine night I heard something from Girl 42 in a casual conversation with me and another guy, who happens to be the girlfriend for Argon for about a few months now. They have went through many challenges, most of which is the painful choice of Argon to choose between either his friends or the girl.
And thus I had heard, " I don't know... I think it won't last forever." Girl 42 refers to her relationship with Argon.
I was beyond disbelief. I would never have thought that this could possibly be. They were the "sweetest couple" in everyone's eyes, their love bonded strongly.
"What!!? Do you know how sad Argon would be if he knew? So why do you continue on the relationship?" I asked.
"I don't know... Enjoy while it lasts..." she says.
After that night I gave serious thought to what Girl 42 said. I decided never to tell Argon, for I was sure that I would cause a rift in their relationship. I trusted that Girl 42 would change her attitude towards relationships.
And so time passes until last week.
Argon faced serious difficulties in their relationship, as Girl 42 thought seriously for the first time on conversion to Islam in the future, something she could not possibly accept. Argon, deeply worried and in a way hurt, sook help from me and many others online.
She sent a SMS to him that perhaps it would be true, that they could never last forever. Argon thought painfully, heart-broken as he recounted to me the sequence of events. That was when I thought, I had the duty as a friend to tell him about the conversation.
I sincerely believed then it would allow Argon to make a choice on the fate of their relationship. That night they broke up for good, not just another unimportant lovers' tiff but yes, for good.
I had faith that I had prevented Argon from further suffering. Argon had felt as if his emotions had been played with. Perhaps me and him are old-fashioned or something, but we feel that one should like, then love once and that's it for life. A long-term relationship till death we both ask for, even though our feelings might not be mature yet. Personally I think that it is in relationships that start from simple, mutual liking to mature, unconditional love, and that being teenagers is no excuse for being a "short-term relationship" person. If it was, it would be to like someone for the sake of liking someone. Liking should develop into unconditional love, isn't it? I do feel that even among adults, they still behave like teenagers when they get into relationships.
But, as with part of my way of life, I always believe that relationships are something that should live on as memories after they die, and not like how others treat them. You may call me stupid, impractical or even over-sentimental, but this is me, reasoning for my cause with my logic which I think is indeed logical. Most people I look at seem to compliment their partner when they are in love endlessly, raising their strengths and accepting their flaws when tey are in relationships. But yet all this seems hypocritical, an even-funnier fairy tale, when the relationship ends and the guy seems to do nothing but pick on the girl, wonder why he ever fell for her, picking on nothing but her flaws and poisoning her reputation as if it is a cardinal sin for the grl to break up with the guy. I find it all too stupid and being an insult to the word Love they use itself, when actually Love is so much more purer and being unconditional than Liking itself. I must however clarify, I do not say that I have understood Love, myself being only understanding Liking. It is clear to myself however, I understand what is Love NOT.
Although I am speaking confidently about what would never happen to me, I still think that after a breakup, one should NEVER forget the memories but instead simply forget the feelings associated with them. One should never treat the girl with disdain and destroy her reputation unless it is the truth, when in most cases it is never.
Thus I as a friend of Argon had to tell the other friends of Argon why the relationship we thought would last an eternity failed. I initially said nothing, simply the cause being a "fundamental flaw from the start", that being a "difference in their mindsets towards relationships. But I strongly asserted that although she was the party to initiate the breakup, it was neither of their faults. I felt that I needed to defend Girl 42 from those who did not understand the issue. Argon was still, and is still, recovering from a failed relationship gone miserably wrong, and I, being the one who saw it from start to end, had to argue for it from an impartial view. But soon people questioned about the fundamental differences I spoke of, and I told them about her lacking commitment. However I still stood by the fact that it was "fundamental differences" that neither party should be blamed for. As with all news, people quickly associated it with feelings, and saw the girl as being "heartless" and all kinds of things sprang up. I could not argue further and the sentiments grew and worsened.
It was in the light of such events that I told Argon that there had to be a desperate need to conclude the entire relationship. I said that I would do it for him. I did not like the idea of things being uncorrected, strings left untied, felt a need to give the girl a complete overview of how I felt as an impartial third-person, instead of what the general public felt, and was deeply fearful of misunderstanding Girl 42 if I had ever.
It turned out that I had. In fact, I had misunderstood her so much, that I could in fact BE the one who had broken the sweet couple up. Really.
When I was doing the whole conclusion, she told me something which was a great shock and caused major guilt to me.
She had changed.
Sometime after she had held that conversation where she said "Enjoy while it lasts" she would have started to think about the relationship becoming long-term. And then she started to ponder upon issues - conversion etc. She started to want the relationship to become long-term.
Yet I had told Argon that she had no wish for commitment. I had thought that such fundamental mindset differences had to mean a breakup. But I had told Argon the total falsified information, and led him onto the breakup. What had I done? I apologized profusely to both of them, for I told them that I had broke them up really.
I asked both of them separately if they wished to be together. Both of them have now set their minds up onto moving on, which is usually good. But not if you had broken them up.
Both said "what has been done has been done." But I cannot help but feel guilt. This was a couple meant to last FOREVER! And this argument absolutely does not work for me, because it just seems like an excuse to my total ass of a wrong move.
Girl 42 tried to relieve me of some guilt when she told me that it was all her wrong move all along. She should never have dated a Muslim guy, for she in the end would not accept conversion.
But... To me it's so much a difference! I mean, this is simply a challenge in their relationship. I do not think it is even easy to solve, but yes, as they have always, I think that if they are still together now they can solve it through their strong love for each another. This is contrasted with my dumb mistake of the "fundamental difference", which showed that this was a couple never meant to be together. It meant so much of a difference, and if I had supplied the correct information, the karmic Effects would be so different from the same Cause.
I feel absolutely guilty now. I know that this will set in me as some hard-wired karma to affect my belief and attitude in the long-term, but I cannot forgive myself for this. For now there are 2 things in life I consider important I must take into consideration:
(i) Love - How I Actually Broke Up Love Itself
(ii) Hypocrisy - How I Actually Could Forgive Myself For Breaking Love
I am in a complete dilemna now. I believe that nobody can understand absolutely how I feel now, not even a renowned cognitive psychologist, unlike he or she happens to have the same beliefs to life as me, and also face the same events as me.
I have two choices:
(i) Forgive myself and destroy the karmic effect, but seem like a total hypocrite
(ii) Not forgive myself and not seem like a hypocrite, but allowing the karmic effect to stay
I do not know what to decide. My beliefs and attitudes towards life seem to reason myself wrong no matter which one it may be. There is of course a last alternative, that is for them to patch up, but that is simply PLAIN DUMB.
I have requested for Argon to follow-up with a post to capture what I have missed and also give you his point of view. Please help me!
0
Comments
You know her style, you know her ways. You saw it as liberal, but many others feel that I was patient with her. You saw how she treated me. Yet, you may argue that I was being oversensitive. Do you not see the underlying trouble I had?
Now, there are mainly a few points why it was not your fault. One was the fact that many people misunderstood what you say. Face it, we are humans and we have to alter a semingly small story to a juicy one. Thus, they ahd to find a culprit. I was onyl caught in the middle. AN inocent guy, and now she accuses me of instigating others to hate her. I have explained everything and the extent of the damage is lessened.
The one thing that made me angry was the way se acted through our course of relationship. She never placed her doubts across, thus there was miscummunication. The flaw was there, it wasn;t your fault. She was in for the moment at first, that was leading me on. But as she become more committed she began to think about convertion. Yet she still kept it to herself, leading me onto another journey. You don't have to blame yourself.
Anyway, my life is better off now. The freedom I once never had and getting my blood friends back. here is a bright side to this. Thus, my dear brother, do not feel guilty. And even if you do, repay me, by working hard on your relationship, not letting your mind clouded by thoughts of regret and guilt. She is waiting for you to speak, and thus SPEAK.
Thank you.
-Ar.Aid
I have to preface my response with this statement ... "I had a hard time following the issue at hand in it's entirety."
So... if I missed something or interpreted it incorrectly... I apologize.
It seems that Girl42 made a comment that you heard which made you think "She is not wanting to be in a long-term relationship with Argon."
You heard these words and eventually relayed them to Argon.
But!, after Girl42 had made this comment - she had actually started thinking that she would like to BE in a long-term relationship with Argon.
But!, you had already repeated what she had initially said, which you feel led to the demise of their relationship.
Am I getting this right?
-bf
It is guilt I am feeling now, for I think it is MYSELF I have disappointed. And I have never found it so hard to forgive myself really. Months I have spent to investigate and reflect on human nature to come out with all these to guide my life and this is my return.
I just need a change in my attitude. Somebody please...
I don't think that you can take what happened and put it on yourself.
You have these very (I believe) male and romantic ideas of what "love" is. How strong and binding it should be. How it can overcome so many obstacles if it's true love.
Yet Argon and Girl 42 have, basically, casually decided that they're ready to move on.
Does this seem like strong and long-lasting love to you?
It doesn't to me.
I can speak from experience. I've have been shit upon by someone that I love and care for deeply. Their actions caused me years of deep pain and grief. Yet, I still love them.
I'm sorry - I think you're taking too much on yourself. If this relationship was meant to last - this wouldn't have even phased them. If something like this could break them up now - living together, being married and sharing their lives together would have fallen apart with the first little problem that came along.
This isn't your fault. You need to quit worrying about it.
-bf
If Argon is your friend - he must know that you bear no animosity towards him and he should know that you care for him. Just the fact that your dealing with these feelings regarding pain you might have brought him (that YOU feel you might have brought him) must certainly show him how much you care for him as a friend.
As for "We all know for a fact that a strong relationship..."
No. I don't know this fact you are describing.
I disagree. A strong relationship can overcome many obstacles. A strong relationship or a strong love may take a beating or two now and again - but if it's strong - it's strong. It will last if it matters enough to the people sharing it.
You are contradicting yourself.
Take 5 - smokes if you got 'em.
-bf
You are doing what countless other 15-16 year olds have done since the beginning of time; you are agonizing. This situation will work itself out without any interference of yours. Let it go and move on. I know how important this all seems to you at the moment but in a year it will seem as insubstantial as a dream. You are punishing yourself for nothing.
If you want something to work on that will actually be of benefit to you I would highly suggest you think about how rigid or flexible your thinking is. Rigid equals pain and suffering, flexible equals freedom and joy.
This will pass if you let it. There are no karmic consequences in the way you think regarding this episode in your life. If you had broken up Argon and his girlfriend on purpose there may be some consequences karmically but neither you nor I could say for certain if that would be the case. Stop thinking about karma in this way. It's unskillful and unhelpful. Do everything with good in your heart. That's all. Leave the rest to nature.
You are going to have to lighten up the burdens you place on yourself, Ajani. You cannot possibly carry that heavy a load. It is a symptom of arrogance and that is not a good thing.
Flexibility of mind is what you need to work on. Your ideas are too rigid. There is nothing absolute and unchanging in this world and you're fighting reality to make it fit your rigid thoughts. This will cause you and those around you to suffer.
Ajani, please learn to relax and let things go. This is the way nature works and it works beautifully. But if you keep fighting it you hurt yourself. Relax and just be, Ajani.
Brigid
Also, I have come to feel the effect of my cause. Now I think Argon has misunderstood Girl 42 too much, and until the point where I think he doesn't even give a damn to her feelings. C'mon, she wasn't heartless. I was the one making her out to be.
Or it could be just a misunderstanding between me and Argon. Whatever it is, we are settling everything tomorrow. Now I wish I had NEVER stepped into this issue at all. The complications now are terrible as I remain hopelessly stretched and confused by Argon.