Did the Buddha really say this?

betaboy

Namaste,

I was listening to a talk by Ajam Brahmavaso. He said that the Buddha once said there's some kind of delight in negative emotions like anger, hate, fear, sorrow etc., which is why we cling to them. If they were totally unpleasant, we would give up our attachment to them at once.

It makes sense to me, this logic, but did the Buddha really say this? Can someone remember exactly where he said this or at least something similar, the sutra?

Thanks,
BB

Bekenze

We don't know what exactly the Buddha said.

Although, it may be found in a sutra (I don't personally know) which is assumed to be the words of the Buddha.

shanyin

I woulnt be surprised it rings a bell I can recall a part of something buddha said about one not being able to be free from suffering because one delights in suffering

federica

Namaste,

I was listening to a talk by Ajam Brahmavaso. He said that the Buddha once said there's some kind of delight in negative emotions like anger, hate, fear, sorrow etc., which is why we cling to them. If they were totally unpleasant, we would give up our attachment to them at once.

It makes sense to me, this logic, but did the Buddha really say this? Can someone remember exactly where he said this or at least something similar, the sutra?

Thanks,
BB

Does this answer your question....?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.005.than.html

thickpaper

We don't know what exactly the Buddha said.

Although, it may be found in a sutra (I don't personally know) which is assumed to be the words of the Buddha.

Yes I think this too. And we have a very good way to test if the Buddha might have said it or might not have in coherence with the Dharma.

It seems to make sense to me that he might have said the above, the notion seems "Dharma Inside":)

Ada_B

It is odd how we nurse negative emotions like anger, hate, fear, sorrow to our chests and refuse to let them go.

I was trying to encourage a young woman who has had a very bad time, up until now, now to nurse her resentment and cynicism about all the people who had done her harm. As an outsider, it seemed obvious to me that such emotions were only hurting herself, but I suppose when you are locked into that situation, your ego lies to you that giving up the feelings is letting 'them' win (which is bad because... the ego says its bad). This is when I find it frustrating that we can't simply flip a switch in our brains and make ourselves think and feel the right way!

ThailandTom

It is odd how we nurse negative emotions like anger, hate, fear, sorrow to our chests and refuse to let them go.

I was trying to encourage a young woman who has had a very bad time, up until now, now to nurse her resentment and cyniandcism about all the people who had done her harm. As an outsider, it seemed obvious to me that such emotions were only hurting herself, but I suppose when you are locked into that situation, your ego lies to you that giving up the feelings is letting 'them' win (which is bad because... the ego says its bad). This is when I find it frustrating that we can't simply flip a switch in our brains and make ourselves think and feel the right way!

This how I often feel about personal situations people find themselves in, it takes an outside view and opinion to see exactly what is going on sometimes. I know that I have been in situations where it has needed someone to point out to me and say, "hey Tom, you are doing this and that, why? Why not do this or that."

federica

I'm going through what might be termed 'a difficult time' myself, currently...
I was unceremoniously (and wrongfully, i might add) dismissed, last week.
I have been feeling quite wretched about it, but today, rooting through some paperwork to find a document, i came across a small card i had written for myself some time ago.
It's a quotation from a woman called Amanda July, an American novelist and director.

"Whatever you put energy into, will grow."

It's amazing how some chance words can put everything into perspective.

It's the 'Mind precedes all Mental states' quotation (Dhammapada, Pairs, number 1), put into a short, brief, and succinct way - but its brevity is salutary.

WallyB

Buddha once said there's some kind of delight in negative emotions like anger, hate, fear, sorrow etc., which is why we cling to them. If they were totally unpleasant, we would give up our attachment to them at once.

hi

imagine burning our hand in a fire. we pull it out and say: "Oh, that really really hurts; oh, this pain is killing me; omg, ah, ah,..." etc, etc.

this occurs due to the continuing pain impulses and the craving to be free of the pain & discomfort. the mind obsesses over the pain, stinging & burning. sometimes, some positive endorphines, energy & emotions also arise, which is part of survival instinct, the motivation to be free of it. for example, we run, excitedly to the tap or freezer, in anticipation & hope of place cool water or ice on the burn

the word "delight" or "nandi" was used in the Buddha's 1st sermon and in many other sermons. it literally means "enjoyment, pleasure, to delight in, to take satisfaction"

in the 1st sermon it was unified with the word "lust" or "passion" (raga), as we would generally use the word "delight" in relation to pleasure

Idaṃ kho pana, bhikkhave, dukkhasamudayaṃ ariyasaccaṃ – yāyaṃ taṇhā ponobbhavikā nandirāgasahagatā tatratatrābhinandinī, seyyathidaṃ – kāmataṇhā, bhavataṇhā, vibhavataṇhā.

And this, monks, is the noble truth of the origination of stress: the craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by lust & delight, relishing now here & now there — i.e., craving for sensual pleasure, craving for becoming, craving for non-becoming.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.than.html

in later teachings, the word "delight" is used in relation to both pleasant & unpleasant feelings

On seeing a form with the eye, he is passionate (sàrajjati) for it if it is pleasing; he is angry (byàpajjati) with it if it is displeasing. He lives with attention to body (kàya-sati) unestablished, with a limited mind, and he does not understand realistically (yàthabhåtaü nappajànàti) the deliverance of mind (cetovimutti) and deliverance by wisdom (pannà vimutti) wherein those evil unwholesome states (dhammas) cease without remainder. Engaged as he is in favouring and opposing, whatever feeling he feels - whether pleasant or painful or neither-pleasant-nor-painful - he delights (abhinandati) in that feeling, welcomes it and remains holding on to it. As he does so, delight (nandi) arises in him. Now, delight in feelings (vedanàsu nandi) is clinging (upàdàna).

Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta

....whatever arises conditioned by contact is experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain.

For him — infatuated, attached, confused, not remaining focused on their drawbacks — the five aggregates subject to clinging head toward future accumulation. The craving that makes for further becoming — accompanied by passion & delight, relishing now this & now that — grows within him. His bodily disturbances & mental disturbances grow. His bodily torments & mental torments grow. His bodily distresses & mental distresses grow. He is sensitive both to bodily stress & mental stress.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.149.than.html

so helpful words for this "nandi" are "infatuation", "engrossed", "obsessed", etc and the word "delight" often does not make sense

metta

WallyB

..helpful words for this "nandi" are "infatuation", "engrossed", "obsessed", etc, as the word "delight" often does not make sense

...as the word "delight" often does not make sense

human being can "delight" in violence & anger, due to the energizing quality. but other emotions they do not really "delight" in. but they do get "caught up" & "obsessed" in other emotions, such as sorrow, anguish, fear, etc, (rather than "delight")

andyrobyn

Obsession, which leads to actions driven by compulsion is descriptive for me.

Dazzle

Obsession, which leads to actions driven by compulsion is descriptive for me.

Yes, I agree andyrobyn. Occasionally l catch myself getting obsessed about something and then say mentally "Letting go....."

Cinorjer

I'm going through what might be termed 'a difficult time' myself, currently...
I was unceremoniously (and wrongfully, i might add) dismissed, last week.
I have been feeling quite wretched about it, but today, rooting through some paperwork to find a document, i came across a small card i had written for myself some time ago.
It's a quotation from a woman called Amanda July, an American novelist and director.

"Whatever you put energy into, will grow."

It's amazing how some chance words can put everything into perspective.

It's the 'Mind precedes all Mental states' quotation (Dhammapada, Pairs, number 1), put into a short, brief, and succinct way - but its brevity is salutary.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Being between jobs used to be an inconvenience, but now it's a full blown emergency.

lamaramadingdong

We like our drama. If someone has done something to wrong us, anger is satisfying at the time and on the surface. Buddha taught us to take a step back from ourselves.

LesC

@federica ...

So sorry to hear that...

federica

@Cinorjer, @LesC,
Thanks guys...
I'm keeping positive - and looking on the plus side, i can devote some time to doing some of the stuff i used to wish I had time to do, when I was working - !

Is the link i posted in my post, above, not useful?
Nobody's commented, but I think it may be what the OP might have been referring to.....?

Dakini

I read it, and I didn't feel that it addressed exactly the OP's concern, or not clearly. I can see how that passage might be interpreted in the way Ajahn Brahm said. As is so often the case, sutras are open to interpretation. But I've noticed that Ajahn Brahm can be a bit fuzzy on the details of what the Buddha really said. We saw recently in a posted video that Ajahn Brahm said the Buddha said that consciousness can enter the fertilized egg or fetus at any point in the gestation period. Other people interpret whatever the Buddha said about life in the womb as meaning that the egg/zygot/fetus is conscious pretty much from fertilization onward. If the Buddha did discuss this, I don't think he intended to mean that life that isn't sentient, i.e. conscious, can be destroyed, but maybe he did.

I think sometimes in trying to make the sutras and their very formal language and style understandable and appealing to modern audiences, the accuracy gets lost to a degree in the translation process into contemporary colloquial language. It would be really helpful if Ajahn Brahm would provide references as he speaks. Some Buddhist teachers do.