Unusual problem: lack of thoughts

yangster58

Hi everybody. So I've been meditating regularly for about a month now, and im starting to notice a problem in my meditating sessions. Everytime i sit, my mind tends to go completely blank when i focus on the breathing. Since vipasanna meditation requires a balance of both concentration and mindfulness, i'm afraid that im cultivating the concentration side too much and neglecting the mindfulness altogether. Also, because i usually don't have any thoughts that pop up when i meditate, i get really sleep. I think its called a sinking mind, where i'm not aware but also not thinking, just in a dull state. Has anyone else encountered this problem? Is this because im not meditating correctly?

Dakini

I wouldn't worry about it. You've achieved one-pointedness-of-mind in one short month, that's great! Keep it up. The same thing happens to me. Except I don't get sleepy. It feels like a vacation for the mind, it feels good to still the mind that way.

Sabre

This is not a problem at all; in fact it is a sign of progress and it is not uncommon. This is how concentration and mindfulness start to build up. Don't equate mindfulness with thinking, it's something deeper than thinking and comes automatically with silence; you don't need to do anything for it.

Also, from the same practice you can get insight; you can now start to see that you are not your thoughts. If you go deeper you can see other things you are not. So vipassana and concentration aren't two different practices; the Buddha also did not teach two separate techniques for this (In my view, not everybody agrees, which is fine. It seems this debate is about as old as Buddhism itself.. ). You may want to read this article to get a bit more background information on this point of view:

In the few instances where they [the suttas] do mention vipassana, they almost always pair it with samatha — not as two alternative methods, but as two qualities of mind that a person may "gain" or "be endowed with," and that should be developed together.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/onetool.html

So keep up the good work; let even more things disappear, it can go much deeper, you'll be amazed. Also, try to keep a still mind in other activities too, like walking, doing chores etc. The sleepiness is a common problem for a lot of people unfamiliar with a still mind, but you will get over it with patience. Sleepiness won't last forever.

This is the way into very nice meditation states. :om:

Have fun!

seeker242

I have encountered falling asleep yes, many times. I would not consider lack of thoughts to be a problem though. You really don't need thoughts to keep you awake. All you need is the complete focus on the breath. However, many people would agree that the breath is quite boring! So it is quite easy to let your attention off it and go into a "blank state" start falling asleep. All this simply means is that your attention has come off the breath and hasn't then been distracted to something else, thus is goes blank and falls asleep. You don't have nagging thought to deal with, this is a good thing IMO. When you are fully focused on the breath and staying there, your mind does not go blank. When you are fully focused on the breath and staying there, you mind is full. It is full with the breath.

yangster58

Okay, I understand. But when I become fully focused on the breath, aren't I just practicing concentration meditation? Where does my mindfulness come into play?

taiyaki

Fully feeling the minute details of the breath. Giving your full awareness onto the breath. The aliveness. Just breath. Thats working on both concentration and mindfulness. Mindfulness is about clarity.

pegembara

This is what Bhante Vimalaramsi says:

"Buddhist Meditation is observing the movements of mind's attention in order to
see and understand HOW the process of cognition actually occurs."

"So, how do we go about observing the movements of minds attention and
understanding the process of Dependent Origination?

"We do it by practicing the 6R's every time a hindrance arises. The 6R's are a
mnemonic mental device used by Bhante Vimalaramsi, to bring ones mind that has
been distracted by a hindrance back to its object of meditation. [Tep's note:
recognize, release, relax, resmile, return, repeat]

"You know your doing it right when on the RELEASE/RELAX step just as you are
RESMILING/RETURNING there is a blank spot. There is nothing happening, there are no thoughts arising. It is a fleeting moment when the mind experiences no
barriers, when it is still. This is the point of clear mind, or still point, or
pure mind. "Learning to see this point actually proves to the meditator that a
place with no tension can exist!"

"With reference to 'stillpoint', it becomes easier to maintain in the first
Jhana when the mind settles down and starts staying on its object of meditation
for longer periods. By the time one attains to the second Jhana, these moments
of stillness can last several seconds and much longer, and a couple of minutes
and longer in the third Jhana, and several minutes to hours in the fourth Jhana.

Sabre

Okay, I understand. But when I become fully focused on the breath, aren't I just practicing concentration meditation? Where does my mindfulness come into play?

Mindfulness is the quality of mind that remembers you want to focus on the breath, to bring the attention back. So you also train this mindfulness through this practice. It can become much stronger with meditation, because it also grows from the silence. This may not happen if you're dull in meditation, but once you can be silent and sharp also, mindfulness will get stronger.


This is how I see right mindfulness.

Jeffrey

What do you mean by insight? How do you know that inishgt is gone? I just ask that because I am having the same problem as you (sounds like) though I am not sure if I will tomorrow.

I have caffein break a little bit and have lost a lot of weight not eating energy rich foods. I suspect that like the 'middle way' says there is some lee way to have mental activity/energy/thoughts. So I hope to find the swing back to vitality vim and vigor soon

But the question I was just thinking of yesterday is how we avoid ego mandalas (how I think of it) while still being open to the dharma mandalas. but I don't think insight can ever fully disappear.