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The context of the so-called "violent" verses
Hello,
In some anti-Islamic websites, I have seen critics trying to prove that Islam is a religion of terror by quoting verses out-of-context. Sometimes they quote a verse such as this:
"And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith." (Quran 2:191)
This verse supposedly seems to ask Muslims to slay non-believers wherever they catch them. But this is entirely false. Look at the previous verse:
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors." (Quran 2:190)
Here, it is telling Muslims to fight only those non-believers who are fighting Muslims. This is verse 2:190. The next verse (2:191), where it says "slay them wherever ye cath them", refers to the non-believers who are fighting Muslims. Verse 2:191 is a continuation of the instruction in 2:190. It does NOT ask Muslims to fight all non-believers. It only asks Muslims to fight non-believers who are fighting Muslims.
In some anti-Islamic websites, I have seen critics trying to prove that Islam is a religion of terror by quoting verses out-of-context. Sometimes they quote a verse such as this:
"And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith." (Quran 2:191)
This verse supposedly seems to ask Muslims to slay non-believers wherever they catch them. But this is entirely false. Look at the previous verse:
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors." (Quran 2:190)
Here, it is telling Muslims to fight only those non-believers who are fighting Muslims. This is verse 2:190. The next verse (2:191), where it says "slay them wherever ye cath them", refers to the non-believers who are fighting Muslims. Verse 2:191 is a continuation of the instruction in 2:190. It does NOT ask Muslims to fight all non-believers. It only asks Muslims to fight non-believers who are fighting Muslims.
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Comments
People take what they want from various scriptures to get the justification they desire to do whatever the hell they want.
Pretty simple, mindless and idiotic.
-bf
1) Self-Doubt
2) Feelings of guilt. Condenming someone that has done the same thing you have done in the past is a good way of hiding your own skeletons.
3) Anger
4) Self-Righteousness
5) Ignorance
Although I'm sure many more reasons could be identifed.
-bf
Brigid
Thank you for your comments. I am not very familiar with the Koran as I should be in these times, but the passages you quote, when taken in full consideration of their meaning, seem fair and just to me in a common-sense judgement and would to most reasonable people that human beings should preserve the right to self-defense. As such I can find no fault. It is certainly not a doctrine of turning the other cheek or of loving your enemy, but it cannot justifiably be taken as it has been by Islamophobes as a blank check to active violence against non-believers, as you pointed out. Particularly striking to me was the phrase: "but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors." which reminds me of the delusions of suicide bombers or those who have killed innocents, who must have elided such warnings in their study of the faith.
I do have some further thoughts about the mindset such passages may establish, however. I don't mean this as a criticism of Islam or of the Koran, but I can see how, psychologically, these passages convey a sense of Islam being a faith that is under seige by infidels. This can very easily turn into a traditional mind-set, that Islam is always oppressed by inimical outside forces who may be justly slaughtered for their oppression, which can engender more radical views on what constitutes oppression, who counts as oppressors, the methods of resisting them, and so on. The relative popularity of figures like Osama Bin Laden (I'm not saying he is globally acclaimed by all muslims) is partly explained by this embattled sentiment. I know this is not the necessary result of such a doctrine, but perhaps merely a possible one or even a probable one. But it does strike a contrast with Buddhist or Christian sentiments of non-violence. I will always remember, though I do not recall the source (perhaps someone will by chance know it), a saying attributed to the Buddha which says "I do not quarrel with the world, monks. It is the world which quarrels with me." Which is, in context of this discussion at least, to set up a more introversive, indifferent attitude to the assaults, be they ideological or martial, of the unfaithful. That Buddhism was more or less ejected from India may have been a side-effect of this passivity, I'm not sure.
Interested to hear your further thoughts,
V.
I think the popularity of Osama bin Laden in the ARAB WORLD (I don't think non-Arab Muslims like him) is due to political reasons. These Arab Muslims have been brainwashed into thinking that America is killing Muslims all over the world (e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan) and therefore they think it is ok to fight America. However, they do not understand that their methods are UNISLAMIC.
First of all, suicide is completely forbidden in Islam, and those who commit suicide are condemned to eternal hell-fire. Therefore there is no question of suicide bombings.
Secondly, many innocent people are killed in suicide attacks. I challenge anyone to find a single verse in the Quran or Hadith which states that you can kill innocent women and children.
I haven't even found where it says you can kill innocent men... if such a thing exists
Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10
Allah has blinded the disbelievers. 2:17-18
A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24
Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61
Allah turned the Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes. 2:65-66
Allah has cursed them for their unbelief. 2:88
The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89
Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 2:90
Jews are the greediest of all humankind. 2:96
Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98
Only evil people are disbelievers. 2:99
For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104
For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114
Disbelievers are losers. 2:121
Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126
"Who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself?"
Cited in the Hamas Charter (Article 27) to condemn the idea of a secular state. 2:130
Those who reject the proofs, are accursed of Allah. 2:159
Those who die disbelievers, are cursed by Allah, angels, and men. 2:161
The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162
They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167
Disbelievers will be deaf, dumb, and blind. 2:171
Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174
How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175
Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217
Intermarriage is forbidden. 2:221
The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers. 2:254
Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257
Allah does not guide disbelievers. 2:264
"Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 2:286
Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4
Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10
Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12
Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. 3:28
Allah loveth not the disbelievers. 3:32
Allah will punish disbelievers in this world and the next. They will have no helpers. 3:56
Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73
Theirs will be a painful doom. 3:77
All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 3:85
Disbelievers will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:87-88
Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 3:91
Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 3:105-6
Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 3:116
Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118
The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131
Give us victory over the disbelieving folk. 3:147
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151
Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176
Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177
Disbelievers will go to Hell. 3:196
Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 4:14
For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:18
For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 4:37
Allah has cursed them for their disbelief. 4:46
Those who ascribe a partner to Allah (like Christians do with Jesus and the Holy Spirit) will not be forgiven. They have "invented a tremendous sin." 4:48, 4:116
Those who invent lies about Allah are guilty of flagrant sin. 4:50
Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims. 4:51
"Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed." 4:52
Hell is sufficient for their burning. 4:55
Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56
Those who refuse to follow Muhammad, follow false gods and are deceived by Satan. 4:60
Those who refuse to believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad are hypocrites. 4:61
Oppose and admonish those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:63
The hypocrites refuse to die for Allah and Muhammad. 4:66
Those who obey Allah and Muhammad are favored by Allah. They are the best company. 4:69
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74
Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76
Allah casts the hypocrites back to disbelief. Don't try to guide those that Allah sends astray. 4:88
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
Believers shouldn't kill believers, unless by mistake. If you kill a believer by mistake, you must set free a believing slave. 4:92
Believers who kill believers will go to hell. 4:93
The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101
For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a shameful punishment. 4:102
Relent not in pursuit of the enemy. They have no hope from Allah. 4:104
Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 4:115
They (those who ascribe partners to Allah) invoke in his stead only females and pray to Satan. 4:117
Allah will lead them astray and they will go to hell. 4:119-121
Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137
Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 4:140
Allah will not allow disbelievers to succeed against believers. 4:141
Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144
The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 4:145
You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151
For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1
God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169
Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5
Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10
Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous. 5:12-13
Allah has stirred up enmity and hatred among Christians. 5:14
Christians are disbelievers for believing in the divinity of Christ. 5:17
Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33
Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 5:36
Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 5:37
Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38
If it makes you feel any better, I can do this with the Bible all day, too. :bowdown:
"Jihad" for example, has so often been misinterpreted and misused as "holy war" - but the true essence of it is "struggle that is internal".
The truth is that human beings are deeply xenophobic and will find any excuse to hate and destroy "the other", the stranger within and outwith their gates. It is, to my mind, far more significant that there are any calls to love the stranger and welcome the refugee - and you will find these in the scriptures, too.
The context must be the whole text and the socio-economic historical processes within which the words arise. You quoted a list of suras without either. How does this contradict the initial assertion?
In the event, text proving is a deeply unsatisfying exercise. It is like trying to feed the starving with prawn crackers: pleasant at the time but, ultimately, unsatisfying.
The real debate is neither over text nor over context, it is about outcome. Should Christians and Muslims read their respective scriptures as inclusive of others or exclusive? Everything else is simply a result of that basic assumption.
I've heard that pretty much all the references to 'killing the unbelievers wherever you find them' was refering to the contemporary conflict with the group of "Pagans/Unbelievers" who were actively trying to kill & destroy Mohamed & his followers. This context seems valid because I have also seen Sura passages where it said that if the unbelievers offer a truce/peace, then accept it (for Allah is merciful). Now, I have not really studied this stuff & I can't offer any adequate debate, but as for the argument that violent material in the Qu'ran is not taken out of context, I would like to see a more thorough & well-supported analysis. Otherwise, I am left once again at a place of indecision.
Now, regardless of whether or not these violent passages are taken out of context, the fact is that certain Muslims are using them as justification for violent treatment of Westerners, women & unbelievers. Whether or not the scripture actually supports such actions, there is a small but influential number of Muslims claiming that it does. This is the problem we must address. Condemning the religion as a whole as violent, or defaming its founder as a child molester, barbarian is a red herring to this, IMO. In fact, I would say that carrying out such actions tends to re-enforce the fundamentalist attitude of the groups of Muslims in question, as well as inflame them.
Basically, because there are both violent and non-violent Muslims, then Islam cannot be shown to be fundamentally/inherently violent. This means there are extra-scriptural factors which determine how the practice of Islam manifests. What I think we need to do is to identify those factors which makes some Muslims violent & other Muslims non-violent. This will allow us to encourage the positive & uproot the negative conditions as best we can. It will also help to pacify the more violent attitudes towards Islam & Muslims, on the whole. What we must do is properly identify all the factors at play, without the flavoring of anger & fear and without the sentimentality of fluffy ecumenism, so we can find what the real causes are & actually do something about them which brings about the desired changes.
_/\_
metta
I mainly just think that as soon as we say it's just the religion, or just the geo-politics, etc. that we are narrowing our vision unnecessarily, and I think we should keep our eyes wide open in these sorts of situations.
_/\_
metta
http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/hearingmuslims/index.shtml
_/\_
metta
This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism.
(All we are saying...)
But then, of course, there's Buddhism...
It would seem, with Islam, the supposedly peaceful majority either does not exist, or for some reason refuse to speak out against their imams and other holy men who appear to be stuck in a time warp. Maybe if the Middle East were to try a Western-Style democracy for a couple generations would this change, but since nobody seems willing to try this in favor of an anti-woman, anti-science, anti-free speech theocracy, I suppose this won't ever happen.
Anyway, my point is, I suppose it's good that many people claim to follow the "Word of God," while they conveniently disregard the more violent acts that God wants from his believers, but why not just thrwo the baby out with the bathwater, which I think would be perfectly rational in this case? Everyone, for the sake of paying respect to everyone's spiritual traditions, thinks it better to have Christians and Muslims running around who only believe 1/2 of what's in their holy books, that being vastly preferable to the ones who believe in them %100 who like to suicide bomb other religious sects and take out abortion clinics. I personally find %50 dumb just as bad as %100 dumb.
Another thing, Buddhism as a whole does not have this problem. There are some questionable things in various scriptures pertaining to women, and some self-proclaimed Buddhists have tried to wrap themselves in the cloak of dharma to excuse their warrior culture, but these exceptions are few and far between. I'm all for loving compassion and tolerance, but I look at the state of the world today, and we seem to be stuck in between three very large death cults who are completely heedless of their negative effect on the world, because they are assured they will go to heaven, and better yet, this "apocalypse" is foretold in prophecy, therefore unavoidable. This Death-Culture is why nothing but lip-service gets paid to environmental legislation, why we have been at war for 4 years with absolutely no end in sight, and the only "compassion" being shown to the poor is a choice between their cars, food, and their apartments.
I am personally sick of having to tip toe around these folks. The only difference between Scientology and the major religions is a couple thousand years, and people generally think Scietology is pretty dumb. Shoot, the biggest problem with Buddhism, in my mind, is the dogmatic religiosity that has crept into it's practice over the years.
Anyway, enough ranting, this is why the other punk rock kids gave me my moniker. I just think it's time to quit faking the funk. As long as we keep pretending that it's mentally healthy to believe in things that are patently false, they'll keep demonising those of us who are evil enough to believe in evolution and don't care if you kiss a man or a woman. That's my take.
Ajani, I couldn't have said it better myself. The main thing that many who are unfamiliar with the Abrahamic religions need to understand is that these religions were founded during periods of great strife and turmoil in the regions where they were first founded. Many of these texts, whether they be from the Old Testament, the Tanakh, the Zohar, the Talmud or the Q'uran, are mainly usually historical, and chart the early days of the religion and it's followers' fight for survival in a hostile world. Many of the current problems in the Middle east are the results of the disasterous foreign policies of the Western allies at the end of World War One. Our attempts to 'rectify' this situation via the war on terror will, unfortunately, create even more problems further on down the line.
To Muslim Youth, Aleikum Salaam!