.....is this normal?

minimayhen88

Dear all, Is this normal....

When I make the conscious decision to have meditative discipline, and abstain from unwholesome thoughts ... my mind seems to go into some kind of attack mode, hopelessly clinging onto negative thoughts and bringing up new worries ... and it becomes even harder to calm my mind down and eliminate such thought processes.

My mind, it almost appears, wishes me to perpetuate these unwholesome thought processes? Is this some animalistic quality of the human anatomy, from when we were once primates!? It feels like some kind of irrational, mind based self defence mechanism.

I would value your thoughts...

(^_^)

federica

for how long have you been meditating?

How long do you make your sessions last?

andyrobyn

As soon as we tell ourselves not to do something, we bring to mind that very thing.

greenfire

minimay-I HAVE to share this...When I am around those that are, or might be, offended by cussing, I have the most overwhelmingly perverse desire/need to cuss like a truck driver. It's true.

minimayhen88

for how long have you been meditating?

How long do you make your sessions last?

I used to be able to meditate very well, even while interacting with others, for hours sometimes I would focus on the 'AUM' (om) mantra and the fact we are all one ... and be able to eliminate pretty much all unwholesome thoughts that entered my mind.

But since I stopped, I'm finding it so hard to return to this state, where I could almost feel an unwholesome thought coming, and then eliminate it before it even appeared...but now my mind seems to cling, compulsivley onto negative thoughts.

xxx

federica

maybe you're suffering from Meditation burn-out...:hrm:

Don't be too hard on yourself.
Start again, small steps.... meditate for 5 - 10 minutes at a time... it's quality, not quantity.
be relaxed, and accept the wonderful 'you'.

Or try walking meditation, or 'washing up' meditation.... TNH has several good books as pointers.....

andyrobyn

minimay-I HAVE to share this...When I am around those that are, or might be, offended by cussing, I have the most overwhelmingly perverse desire/need to cuss like a truck driver. It's true.

Mmmmm , I guess most important point is whether or not " cussing" is a problem for YOU

taiyaki

Do not focus on content, just see a thought for what it is. A display of karma appearing to no one, no where, and in no time.

Also do not try to calm the mind down, you will never win that war.

Just work with the mind, ride it out. Let it stay, be with it. It will pass.

shays860

Just don't engage the thoughts. Let them arise and pass away.

maybe you're suffering from Meditation burn-out...:hrm:

Don't be too hard on yourself.
Start again, small steps.... meditate for 5 - 10 minutes at a time... it's quality, not quantity.
be relaxed, and accept the wonderful 'you'.

Or try walking meditation, or 'washing up' meditation.... TNH has several good books as pointers.....

I find it interesting you mention this. I didn't even know "washing up" meditation was a thing, but I often find my mind unusually drawn to a meditative state when brushing my teeth and showering.

Sabre

Hi, mini,

When the mind is not peaceful in meditation, it is one or more of the five hindrances mentioned by the Buddha that's active. So, to answer your question: Yes, this is normal.

It sounds like restlessness & worry (those are taken as one) is the main one that is now in your mind. This is not the time to lessen your meditation and it is not a meditation burn-out, in fact this is the time to learn. Because it is the hindrances that we have to learn about in meditation. But before you can start to investigate restlessness, you first have to accept it as it is. If you can do that, it will already start to lose its grip.

So approach it with kindness. The mind is peaceful? That's fine. The mind is restless? That's fine too. If you try to push the restlessness away, it'll only become stronger.

I looked this up for you, maybe it can help:
http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/books-articles/articles/the-five-hindrances-handouts/the-hindrance-of-restlessness-worry/


Wish you much peace in your meditation,
Sabre

Amelia

When I make the conscious decision to have meditative discipline, and abstain from unwholesome thoughts ... my mind seems to go into some kind of attack mode, hopelessly clinging onto negative thoughts and bringing up new worries ... and it becomes even harder to calm my mind down and eliminate such thought processes.

Let thoughts come and then pass by. The point is not to forcibly avoid them.

I find it interesting you mention this. I didn't even know "washing up" meditation was a thing, but I often find my mind unusually drawn to a meditative state when brushing my teeth and showering.

Everything can be a "meditation." I'm fond of the taking a crap meditation.

David

maybe you're suffering from Meditation burn-out...:hrm:

Don't be too hard on yourself.
Start again, small steps.... meditate for 5 - 10 minutes at a time... it's quality, not quantity.
be relaxed, and accept the wonderful 'you'.

Or try walking meditation, or 'washing up' meditation.... TNH has several good books as pointers.....

I'd have to second this.

@ minimayhen88 ;

You sound like you have much more depth of experience than I with sitting meditation so all I can offer is that if it feels like a defence mechanism, maybe it's time to meditate in other ways. If it feels like a chore, it isn't going to work.

I've had my best results with walking meditation but as has been mentioned, if you are fully there in whatever you are doing, you are meditating.

Sabre

Meditation isn't always as pleasant. But that doesn't mean it is not always fruitful. Sometimes there are some rougher patches in the path. Even when meditation is pleasant and peaceful 99% of the times, there still is that 1%. But that's ok, that's just the mind. That's not a defence mechanism or a meditation burn out. It's just nature, just dukkha.

We just have to learn and sit in those periods as well. In fact those are the most important periods because we have to learn how to still the mind. This isn't done by lessening the effort, but by looking into our mind and finding the cause. And maybe sometimes the cause can be us trying too hard in a wrong way. But I wouldn't put that possibility up first and suggest to lessen the meditation because there can be many other things that can be the cause that you'll only find out through meditation.

DairyLama

Also do not try to calm the mind down, you will never win that war.

Good advice, trying to calm the mind is like herding cats. Though taking a few deep breaths sometimes helps.

mithril

Thoughts often run on affect (emotions). A boring book that you don't care about at all is forgotten sooner then the test that often follows it the next day . Shocking or thoughts you feel bad about are remembered as long as you feel the emotion, sometimes for decades. And you feel the emotion as long as you don't experience it in its entirety.

It seems like you have some thoughts and you keep adding fuel to them in a way of disliking them. The more you judge the thoughts, the better they will grow, as this is fertilizer to them.

One thought often causes a whole cascade of other thoughts to spring up. You are helpless in this, so don't bother. But as soon as you go "oh, i'm thinking again", you have the power to return to the breath or whatever you base your attention on. When you do this a couple of times the time in between becomes longer. Also, longer and more complex cascades get played out faster.


Otherwise, humans are still primates.

andyrobyn

Labelling helps me to move forward - as mithril describes above recognising " I am thinking" ( whether it is how to split the atom or what to cook for dinner - there is no distinction as it makes no difference what constitutes the thought" ), the label "thought" enables quick return to the breath, or whatever.

caz

Dear all, Is this normal....

When I make the conscious decision to have meditative discipline, and abstain from unwholesome thoughts ... my mind seems to go into some kind of attack mode, hopelessly clinging onto negative thoughts and bringing up new worries ... and it becomes even harder to calm my mind down and eliminate such thought processes.

My mind, it almost appears, wishes me to perpetuate these unwholesome thought processes? Is this some animalistic quality of the human anatomy, from when we were once primates!? It feels like some kind of irrational, mind based self defence mechanism.

I would value your thoughts...

(^_^)

Delusions are very deep and their only function is to harm, Its no surprise when people first start practicing Delusions kick like a mule, The longer you stay in a session the easier they will dissipate. Delusions rise and fall like any other phenomena eventually after sustain effort meditative concentration becomes clear and you can hold your object of focus much longer.