The depth of the Fourth Precept?

minimayhen88

In terms of transgressing the Fourth Precept - would deceiving others, by for instance covering something up, be a transgression? By covering something up - I don't mean hiding something out of spite or a desire to harm - I mean something like spilling something and trying to conceal the evidence, to avoid argument etc.

Apologies if this is trivial, but its something I have been contemplating x

vinlyn

Actually, I think it's a good question.

Was actual harm done? Or just a temporary problem that then didn't exist?

If it was all fixed perfectly well, then I would say no problem. If you are hiding something that did harm, then I would think that would be problematic with the 4th Precept.

misecmisc1

My understanding of Buddha's teachings says: the important thing is intention and right intention comes from right view and the 8-fold path. whatever is done with right intention is ok.

taiyaki

Not sure about the precept. But I do recall the precepts on a whole were designed to help one lead a moral life, which in turn allows one to meditate with a calmer mind.

A mind full of guilt cannot relax. Thought after thought will arise on what a bad buddhist or immoral person you are. This can become a huge hinderance to most people if they do not have the meditative discipline to just sit through all of it.

When I do something bad or whatever I call morally wrong, I can feel a tug in the heart. Then a deep regret sets in. Then I focus on doing exactly the opposite to purify the negative deed.

So for instance if I was angry at another, I will make damn sure that I am more patient around such individual. Or if I steal, then I will make sure I give away, etc. Then after doing such good deed, I allow myself to be joyful because I am making progress to have an open heart and to make better circumstances for myself, which in turn effects everyone around me.

Not sure if this is off topic or it will help, but it really helps to understand why we have ethics and morals. Why we are cultivating a compassionate and kinder mind. It is all so that we can see wisdom and then open our hearts, which in turns allows us to serve everything and everyone. So it begins with ethics and ends with ethics.

Just a thought.

misecmisc1

@taiyaki: Agreed to your thought. Morality, meditation and wisdom go together and constitute the 8-fold path. Morality supports meditation, meditation supports wisdom, wisdom supports morality.

Nirvana

@taiyaki: Off topic???? Very much to a much greater point, which is to avoid having hang-ups (which obscure the really important things). Overscrupulousness is no virtue!

Kudos on your thoughts!

Jeffrey

One thing is that if we tell a lie there is some shame or dissonance somehow. That could disturb our mind. I think if we have a good intention a lie can sometimes prevent a bad hurtful situation. Yet whenever we lie we don't know what the result will be. How does it feel when you have to lie? How does it feel when you find out that someone lied to you?

JohnG

The question you should ask yourself is, was there intention to do such an act? And, what knowledge did you have when the act was committed?

If you had the knowledge that to do something was wrong, and you did it any way, then a problem exists. If you did something, but, the information you had at that time was right, but later learned the information was wrong, then the fault is not yours.

DairyLama

In terms of transgressing the Fourth Precept - would deceiving others, by for instance covering something up, be a transgression? By covering something up - I don't mean hiding something out of spite or a desire to harm - I mean something like spilling something and trying to conceal the evidence, to avoid argument etc.

It's sometimes tempting to tell "white lies", but I think it's a slippery slope. Who are we really trying to protect?