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I was drawn to the Dharma by other practitioners - one in particular. I have stayed due to my experiences and progress - and this has been affected greatly by my teachers and Sangha members.
Mmmm ... how does Catholicism or any other religion force people to really believe anything? How can a person be forced to believe anything? Getting children and indoctrinating them into certain beliefs from a young age which they do not question, brainwashing and physically torturing adults are activities I can think of which may lead to others being able to influence what another person says, not what they really believe from experience and investigation though.
The Buddha encouraged the idea of not believing anything unless it correlated with our own experience and critical analysis.
Shame on you Androbyn. Now I have to confess (pun intended) that I don't really think Christianity (in this day and time) requires anyone to believe anything in particular. For example, two of my closest friends are Catholic. She doesn't believe in Confession and both believe in the right to an abortion. I know people who have gotten up and walked out of Mass because the priest was saying something in his homily that they didn't agree with (including me back in the 1960s). Freedom of thought has greatly modified religion, for sure.
Sabre, I never said it was a call to faith, blind or otherwise, but quite to the contrary ---that we place our refuge in the Dharma, internalize the teachings as you say, exactly.
I know, but I was clarifying for HookahCaterpillar.
Sorry for the confusion.
Metta!
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
Off-Topic Post:
By the way, I didn't mean for that post to be taken as ad hominem --- it was in regard to dialectics, the art of debate, ect.
@Dharmakara, arguing, debating and discussing any matter on this board, with a Moderator or with Admin, is not only perfectly acceptable, it's absolutely normal, and to be expected. Moderators are normal people with their own views, opinions and beliefs, just the same as anyone else, and you might or might not agree with them. simply because other might take issue with our beliefs, views opinions or comments, does not mean that it would be taken as an as hominem attack.
The socially acceptable standards of discussions apply, across the board. Flaming, trolling, insulting, discourtesy, foul-mouthed rudeness and disrespectful personal remarks, will not be tolerated. Towards anyone, under any circumstances.
So there's no mistunderstanding, I'm talking about the "requirement of faith", not "faith" in and of itself.
I think another way to look at this is faith in our practice. Given that practice requires some effort and application, don't we need to have some faith ( "confidence"? ) in it's efficiacy? For example if I didn't believe that my meditation practice was going somewhere I probably wouldn't bother doing it. Or we could talk more generally about having faith in the Noble 8-fold path.
So there's no mistunderstanding, I'm talking about the "requirement of faith", not "faith" in and of itself.
I think another way to look at this is faith in our practice. Given that practice requires some effort and application, don't we need to have some faith ( "confidence"? ) in it's efficiacy? For example if I didn't believe that my meditation practice was going somewhere I probably wouldn't bother doing it. Or we could talk more generally about having faith in the Noble 8-fold path.
Wouldn't it be fair to say we have such "faith" because it's an aspect of our practice that is tangible? It might be more rhetorical though, maybe I'm speaking more in regard to "confidence" than having faith in something.
So there's no mistunderstanding, I'm talking about the "requirement of faith", not "faith" in and of itself.
I think another way to look at this is faith in our practice. Given that practice requires some effort and application, don't we need to have some faith ( "confidence"? ) in it's efficiacy? For example if I didn't believe that my meditation practice was going somewhere I probably wouldn't bother doing it. Or we could talk more generally about having faith in the Noble 8-fold path.
Wouldn't it be fair to say we have such "faith" because it's an aspect of our practice that is tangible? It might be more rhetorical though, maybe I'm speaking more in regard to "confidence" than having faith in something.
Yes, and in a Buddhist context I tend to think of "faith" in this broader sense of having confidence in something tangible - so we might talk about having faith in something or someone, or in this case having faith in a method or path. This seems to me quite different from "blind faith", where we believe in something intangible without personal experience.
To me there can be no knowledge outside one's experience. The texts may be a finger pointing at something, why should there be any expectation that the thing exists? Just look and if you see it then its there, if you don't its not. Expecting to see something will only aid in delusion. In my opinion the only possible way of seeing something clearly is to start from the point of ignorance, otherwise your view is biased and you will see what you want to see and ignore what you don't want to see.
In my opinion the only possible way of seeing something clearly is to start from the point of ignorance, otherwise your view is biased and you will see what you want to see and ignore what you don't want to see.
I think you're right, and in this context disbelief can be just as misleading as belief.
Comments
Sorry for the confusion.
Metta!
Moderators are normal people with their own views, opinions and beliefs, just the same as anyone else, and you might or might not agree with them.
simply because other might take issue with our beliefs, views opinions or comments, does not mean that it would be taken as an as hominem attack.
The socially acceptable standards of discussions apply, across the board.
Flaming, trolling, insulting, discourtesy, foul-mouthed rudeness and disrespectful personal remarks, will not be tolerated.
Towards anyone, under any circumstances.
Enjoy your discussion!
O/T ends.
Or we could talk more generally about having faith in the Noble 8-fold path.
This seems to me quite different from "blind faith", where we believe in something intangible without personal experience.
To me there can be no knowledge outside one's experience. The texts may be a finger pointing at something, why should there be any expectation that the thing exists? Just look and if you see it then its there, if you don't its not. Expecting to see something will only aid in delusion. In my opinion the only possible way of seeing something clearly is to start from the point of ignorance, otherwise your view is biased and you will see what you want to see and ignore what you don't want to see.
And repeating what I posted previously
With the caveat that when ignorance is really overcome there is no need for belief, disbelief or even doubt.