Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
I ain't no durn racialist!
Sabine
Veteran
*intentional typos*
So yeah - I'm starting to be very concerned about race relations - not just here in N. America, but the rest of the world, as well. I keep reading about neo-Nazis in Germany, and just today, I read a story about a Belgian skinhead killing an African nanny and the little Belgian girl she was caring for. BOTH of them - the baby didn't even do anything.
Even here in the South, normally, I have good relations with different races - but lately, a few boys in my class have been making comments relating to our "place in society" - for instance, we were taking one of our exams earlier this week, and a black boy came in late because of a train. He was trying to figure out where to sit, when a Caucasian boy came in right behind him, and of course, there was only one seat left. They kinda stared at each other for a second, then one of the Caucasian boy's friends says, "You're white, he's black - he goes to the back."
:-/ I was so shocked at this - he tried to laugh it off a few minutes later, when EVERYONE in the class was glaring at him, but I've been hearing things like this for a few months now.
As well as this type of high school nonsense, my city in general is waaaaay too racially charged - in both directions. Every election is called fraud because the black man didn't win, because the white man rigged the vote, because the black man has too many connections, etc.
It's so frustrating! I just want to move to Antarctica or something when I see stuff like this happening...
Anyway, is there ANYTHING I can do? What would Buddha do? I read something earlier that was similar to Jesus' "turn the other cheek," but when it comes to violence...
I'm sorry I had to bring this up, but it's concerned me for a long time now. Being a young female doesn't help the danger factor in this, either. I'm almost scared to go to the mall now.
So yeah - I'm starting to be very concerned about race relations - not just here in N. America, but the rest of the world, as well. I keep reading about neo-Nazis in Germany, and just today, I read a story about a Belgian skinhead killing an African nanny and the little Belgian girl she was caring for. BOTH of them - the baby didn't even do anything.
Even here in the South, normally, I have good relations with different races - but lately, a few boys in my class have been making comments relating to our "place in society" - for instance, we were taking one of our exams earlier this week, and a black boy came in late because of a train. He was trying to figure out where to sit, when a Caucasian boy came in right behind him, and of course, there was only one seat left. They kinda stared at each other for a second, then one of the Caucasian boy's friends says, "You're white, he's black - he goes to the back."
:-/ I was so shocked at this - he tried to laugh it off a few minutes later, when EVERYONE in the class was glaring at him, but I've been hearing things like this for a few months now.
As well as this type of high school nonsense, my city in general is waaaaay too racially charged - in both directions. Every election is called fraud because the black man didn't win, because the white man rigged the vote, because the black man has too many connections, etc.
It's so frustrating! I just want to move to Antarctica or something when I see stuff like this happening...
Anyway, is there ANYTHING I can do? What would Buddha do? I read something earlier that was similar to Jesus' "turn the other cheek," but when it comes to violence...
I'm sorry I had to bring this up, but it's concerned me for a long time now. Being a young female doesn't help the danger factor in this, either. I'm almost scared to go to the mall now. 0
Comments
Ask them what they're afraid of.
There is one thing that I can relate to you that might be important. When I realized, around your age, that I was in danger just for being a female I started to become very aware of it and I saw danger around every corner. I went from one extreme, being blissfully unaware, to the other and it was terrible. I had to find my way back to the middle and refuse to allow fear to affect my life. I took precautions for safety but I didn't let myself live in fear.
Putting aside the fear factor for a minute, in a Buddhist sense there is a practical opportunity here that may be of great benefit to you. It's about those we perceive as enemies and wish to do us harm. You're right about the "turning the other cheek" thing and Buddhism tells you how to actually do that.
The Dalai Lama talks about this often. He says that when we are confronted by enemies it's the very best opportunity we will ever have to practice patience and compassion and that it's not illogical to thank our enemies for giving us this opportunity for practice. Obviously you don't have to go around thanking every racist you meet but you get the gist. It's a practice to benefit yourself. Conjuring up compassion for a racist is a very difficult thing to do, which is why it's such a good opportunity. There are many ways to do it. I have my own little ways. For example, I have a very hard time liking George Bush as a fellow human being so I visualize the time he was in China meeting the press and he was trying to avoid some difficult questions by ignoring the reporters, waving good bye and walking out of the room. But he couldn't find the door. He went in one direction then he went back to where he'd been standing and looked around for help etc. etc. until he was finally shown the right exit. He tried to make a joke but the whole thing was just embarrassing as hell.
When I first saw the clip I laughed in glee at his discomfort and that made me feel vaguely wrong. So now I use it to imagine him as a regular human being separate from all of his words and deeds. Just an incredibly embarrassed human being and I actually feel for him. Imagining people who I perceive as enemies in an embarrassing situation helps me feel compassion for them. I guess it's because I'm looking at them form a different perspective, one in which they're no longer a threat to me so my fear evaporates and my true heart can come through. It really helps me a lot. I do it with my parents all the time. lol!
But I've never had to do it when I've felt threatened just because of my race. I imagine it will be very difficult to find ways to conjure up compassion for people like that but it's definitely worth a shot. I think you'll also feel a lot safer after seeing people like that from a different perspective. They become much less threatening. You can conjure up the compassion in any way that suits you, whatever works for you.
I wish I had some more advice for you, Sabine, and the thought of you feeling threatened like this makes me feel sick and angry. Please feel comfortable coming here and sharing anything like this with us. We're your sangha, right? Your safe place to fall, part of your support structure and I feel honoured to be able to talk to you about things like this.
Brigid
As for racism in the US, I had a discussion with my friend last night about a group of people on a another forum I go to that display xenophobic racist characters. I at one point hated quite a few, but have learned to practice compassion by laughing at them locking horns with one another, trying to impress females with their jock attitudes (by acting like they are special beings), and it doesen't work because no ladies ever see them
When you mentioned the school event, it strikes me as interesting because it seems consistent with what was going in in the 50's, early 60's. It should not happen today, not in a public school. It's difficult to deal with problems like this, but the thing that would be proper (in my opinion) is to speak with the victim, to try to make his day better, get his mind off of what happened. The person who made the comment about being black and white, he is an indirect enemy. He is earning bad karma, it is not brushing off on you, and if you tried, I find it is often difficult to change an adult's mind if you're X amount of years younger. Having a discussion with him is pretty much above your head (no offense, but I'm speaking from my personal experience, I've been through this before). Get your parents or another adult involved if this truly is starting to bother you and you feel threatened (physically or mentally) by it. If at all possible, forget about the day's events, go home, and relax. Avoiding these, and intentionally forgetting the negativity will help relieve stress and if it's a major problem, talk to your parents about everything that's bothering you. It really will help, and if worse comes to worse, moving is always a possibility (if your parents feel that you are unsafe in your present location). In the Northeast, there is very little of what you describe, the races get along pretty well, I've even gotten to the point where I socialized with muslims and even possibly almost had a muslim girlfriend. Especially today, that takes a real open mind and kindness considering my friends were Pakistani, Persian, Turkish, and Indian.
I wish you the best of luck in resolving your situation, mine involved religion and the holocaust so I really needed help of my parents in dealing with a teacher.
anyone is germany wearing a swastika or any neo nazi/ nazi uniform/ sign is arrested
America is the place you should worry about.. freedom of speech means that americans can hold rallies as long as they don't threaten to kill ppl.. there are states in USA that have insanely high white % due to a huge amount of anti-foreigners .. and there are companies profiting enormously from NAZI records/songs/chants/propaganda/T-shirts/books..
sooo in USA you can hold a big rally shouting "Nigger Nigger Nigger OUT!! OUT !! OUT!!" while doing the hitler salute... in Germany you'd be arrested quite fast.. in UK the same would happen..
I know usa likes to preach about its freedom of speech and crap but they don't really much more significance that any other countrys rights.. and their president Bush pretty much is a dictator
racism is just ignorance.. although i admit i dislike chavs and especially black ones..
i suppose reason for that is that they are anti-social (look at me im a deprived) black person who lives on a council estate, we've suffered from white ppl .. while i really don't mind my manager at work who is black and at least doesnt seem to me to be advertising the fact that hes black and feels racially abused...
i find it all ironic.. I'm sorry for your problems.. but there is little you can do except live your life..
Blame USA Government and UK Govt they started the Iraq war... and USA has been raping the backside out of muslim countries for years...
this has little to do with black people, but the xenophobia from muslims seems to spread about even to all foreigners white/black/brown or w/e even poles are discriminated against more since 9/11 and recent happenings..
Sabine...ignorance exists. Depending on one's point of view, it can be said that we are all ignorant (of something)...in samsara. At times, it may seem that there is little light...but don't despair. Just remember to have the Right View, and Right Action will follow.
I take inspiration where I can get it, and on the subject of making a change I really like this story:
There is a story about Cesar Chavez, the legendary organizer and head of the United Farm Workers. Three young organizers, eager to learn from the best, drove through the night to see Chavez at his home. When they got there, they all sat down to talk.
“Tell us, please,” they said, “the secret to being a good organizer.”
Chavez replied, “Well, first you talk to one person, then you talk to another person…”
“No, no, no. We want to hear how it really works. What you’ve done here that’s made farm worker organizing and the grape boycott so successful.”
Chavez was silent for a moment.
“Well,” he said finally, “first you talk to one person, then you talk to another person…”
Growing up (for awhile) being the only white boy in a black neighborhood - it wasn't very fun. But, I did have some very close friends and a couple of mothers that loved me and treated me wonderfully. What was odd... was terms of endearments that she used on me. Including the "N" word at me - which was either meant with love and affection or anger with her wielding her shoe at me because of something stupid I did.
I hate racial crap. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.
There are so many things all of us can share with each other tot enrich our own lives.
-bf
The Sneetches were a yellow bird-like creature that came in two varieties: one with stars on their bellies and one without stars on their bellies. The ones without stars on their bellies were jealous of the the others, who in turn were disdainful of the others.
Along comes a man with a machine that can add a star to their bellies - for a price. Soon the Sneetches with stars begain to envy the one without stars. The man's machine can also remove the stars from their bellies - again for a price.
Soon all the Sneetches are running in and out of the machine having stars removed and added until they are exhausted and out of money. The now rich man with the machine leaves and the Sneetches realize their foolishness and decide to become friends and ignore their differences.
I love that story.
::
What is a chav?
Please check this sentance out, I am unable to understand your point.
"I know usa likes to preach about its freedom of speech and crap but they don't really much more significance that any other countrys rights"
BTW as an American I am trying very hard to read your post with compassion.
In my view point , disliking blacks that advertise they have been oppressed and liking one that doesn't say so may be a form of racism. Many in the south (USA) had that form of thought, "As long as they make no trouble they are ok." Many used the statement "I dont dislike Martians, one of them is my best friend" to diminish a racial slur . Good martians aare the ones that act like earthers
As this may not be the forum for this, I will be happy to discuss this in pms.
Right speech, thought and effort are all middle paths. Take care of strong emotions (negative or positive) that may take away your peace
Peace from an Old Fart Southern Boy
Russell
edited to correct SOME of my typos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav
The British equivalent of white trash? A hated subculture in England, I guess - I typed in "chav" on Google and got all types of hate sites.
...I don't know what to say to that. I listen to dance and trance, and the occasional lounge/R&B, and I wear hoodies. But whatever, I don't want to get into that.
Well, I see I've started a nice discussion now. I said something to the boy about what he said a few days ago, and we hugged, and we're cool now. He said he felt genuinely bad, but sometimes he just slips. Which I totally understand - we're all human.
Buddhafoot:
Magwang: I think that story should be taught everywhere.
I wouldn't have had it any other way. I got the crap stomped out of me a couple of times - but I've got the crap stomped out of me by white kids too... especially this one Danny kid when I was younger. Oh!, and Mike and his buddies that one time.. Grrrr...
I still look back fondly at some of those ladies and my friends. I miss them.
-bf
I'm not making excuses, but I remember when I was little I referred to a black person as a "colored person" - just an expression that I had heard my parents (who were from the South) use.
I never really thought about it. In fact, I thought it was normal. That was all that I had heard. So, when I referred to Lilian as a "colored person". Very sweetly, she said, "Oh really? And what color am I?"
I remember being confused. She said, "I'm black, honey. Just one color."
I then realized that "colored" must have been a denigrating way to describe black people. So, I never used it again.
I've been called "whitey", "cracker", "white-ass", "honkey", etc - but oddly enough, these kinds of comments have never bothered me.
Probably because there aren't the centuries and decades of pain and suffering associated with these words and actions like there are regarding the black community in areas where slavery was commonplace and thought to be "okay".
We need to think before we speak and act and remember that we all cry tears and we all bleed red.
-bf
Well said, BF.
The brutal truth is that white people can never understand what it's like to be black. Even in the book Black Like Me, John Howard Griffin knows that he can only gain a partial understanding because eventually his skin is going to go back to being white. The same problem exists in recent experiments where white people are transformed into black people with the help of modern make up techniques such as silicone etc. The person "experiencing" what it's like to be black still knows that they can take the make up off and return to being white.
They also haven't grown up being black or shared in the history and culture of being black. We simply can't feel what African Americans feel, know and understand about being black. And it's not just in areas of the southern U.S. but everywhere.
We are all racist. We are all prejudiced in some way because that's the way we've been socialized, whether we want to admit it or not. We are all under the influence of the dominant paradigm, none of us are immune, none of us were born and raised and continue to live in an isolated bubble. When someone begins a sentence with "I'm not racist but..." those words are a lie. There are different degrees, certainly, but none of of us are untouched. And I'm not only talking about "us white people". I'm talking about every single human being born into a world in which racism exists.
The fact of the matter is that we all live under a white, male dominated power structure. But we can't change anything until we acknowledge it and the very least we can do is admit to ourselves that we're not completely neutral and it's something we have to be aware of, admit to, understand and overcome.
By the way, Celebrin, this statement: is extremely offensive and illustrates your own ignorance very well.
White
Black
Irish
Chinese
Indian
Native American
Serbian
Croation
Roman
Jew
Nazarene
Cambodian
Scottish
English
Welsh
African, etc.
Need I go on?
It's just not a "white/black" thing. People will hate and hurt just about any kind of person that happens to be handy.
-bf
Across the lines
Who would dare to go
Under the bridge
Over the tracks
That seperates whites from blacks
Choose sides
Or run for your life
Tonight the riots begin
On the back streets of America
They kill the dream of America
Little black girl gets assaulted
Ain't no reason why
Newspaper prints the story
And racist tempers fly
Next day it starts a riot
Knives and guns are drawn
Two black boys get killed
One white boy goes blind
Little black girl gets assaulted
Don't no one know her name
Lots of people hurt and angry
She's the one to blame
I like the song, the message is clear.
Love to you all-Regardless.
cheers,
Xrayman
Also, thanks to everyone for being so open. It's good to talk about these things, and I like the fact that I have a group of adults I feel able to talk to - I don't have that so much "IRL," so coming here as often as possible is like therapy for me.
as for qualifictaions, they have 4D's and a few E's U's at GCSE level and they live of benefits (MY TAX'S!!!!)
REMAINDER OF POST DELETED - Too Offensive.
Because as far as I can tell, this is just a hate filled tirade and I'm sick of it.
We've treated you with kindness and hospitality. We didn't invite your vitriol.
You're in the wrong place. Your post is almost unintelligible and it's always best not to use words you don't understand. You can blame the education system all you want but that excuse doesn't fly and illustrates a penchant for blaming others for your own shortcomings. You're capable of picking up a dictionary and looking up a word. You also have the resources of the entire internet at your disposal.
This is a site for those interested in Buddhism, not a place to spew lazy, ignorant, adolescent hatred. Sort yourself out, Celebrin. If you have nothing helpful to say, keep it to yourself, because I don't want to hear it. Do you understand?
That is off her album Crossroads-you would love it-I particularly like the song Talkin' 'bout a Revolution, here:
Don't you know
They're talkin' about a revolution
It sounds like whisper
Don't you know
They're talkin' about a revolution
It sounds like whisper
While they're standing in the welfare lines
Crying at the doorsteps of those armies of salvation
Wasting time in the unemployment lines
Sitting around waiting for a promotion
Poor people gonna rise up
And get their share
Poor people gonna rise up
And take what's theirs
Don't you know
You better run...
Oh I said you better
Run
run
run...
it is particularly relevant because that is how my wife lived when she was a little girl (however not with the added problem of racism-though)
Crossroads is definitely her best. she grew up in Cleveland I believe.. My favourite place in the states.
regards,
Xray
oh, BTW, hello everybody! been a while since i've been on. Alot of things have been going on, but I won't go into detail.
with love,
Wes.
I just simply try to practice the 8-fold Path in most of my interactions. Sometimes it's hard, especially when the attack is blatant. And I will not be the first to say that I have had some racist thoughts on my own. But mostly they are stereotypes and backward opinions of others that trigger them.
I guess that's the reason why I dont deal much with American entertainments....actually, Im a hermit in the midst of a giant city. For now, that is the way it should be.
But In all actuality....race relations are a bit better now, than when I was a kid. I see the intermingling of all races amoung the young. I see Vietnamese kids hangin with Black kids...I think it's getting closer to being a bi-racial nation, as I see many kids from a bi-racial union. So I do have some hope.
Ignorance abounds, but I just practice.
Many welcomes and it's nice to meet you!
Make yourself at home.
Can I get you a cup of tea?
Brigid
I'll take the Korean Green Tea....with a tiny slice of that Lemon cake...
Gotta stay away from the sugar, you know.....
Solidarity.
Welcome to the site!
Hey, Abstract,
Love that sign off! Solidarity. It's beautiful and unique. It's funny but that word holds a lot of meaning for me, ever since I was little and watched the Polish Solidarity movement on the news. I'm not Polish but the idea runs very deeply in me. I love it.
Brigid
P.S. I know what you mean about the sugar. I'm watching it, too.
The real growth of racism over here (UK) is anti- "Arab". Unfortunately, that designation covers a multitude of origins, as one local Sri Lankan discovered, not to mention the Brazilian gunned down by the Metropolitan Police.
At the moment, you really do not want to be a young Muslim man here, particularly in big towns.
I hear comments similar to Celebrin's and all-too-familiar. Things like: "Thdey should behave better", "They smell funny", "If they want to live here they should.....", all this despite the fact that "they" were born here, work here, pay taxes, etc.
In France, when I was working there, racism was already on the increase. "Touche pas mon pote" (Don't touch my friend) was the badge we wore but synagogues were fire-bombed, Senegalese students attacked and so on. Since then (and all I learn is from the media) it would seem that things are getting worse.
The same is true in Russia, where racism is endemic.
If we, as individuals, want to do something about this spreading plague, we have only a few choices. The first is to watch our own language and attitudes very carefully. Derogatory comments based on race or ethnicity need to be eliminated from our own speech - words like "raghead", the N word (obviously), "kike", etc. We need to have the courage to object to the words in other';s mouths as a second step, challenging the attitude. This is particularly true where we are part of the dominant group.
Finally, of course, we must be prepared to stand beside our brothers and sisters when they are attacked.
"This is particularly true where we are part of the dominant group."
The fact is that many indigenous English people (and obviously, I can only speak for them) are disturbed and perturbed by the alarming increase in the immigrant population, and of their subsequent offspring...
I will tell you of a true and honest discussion I had with a young Moslem from Pakistan, - around the age of twenty, and with seven brothers and sisters, mostly born in Pakistan (only his youngest sister was born in the UK...) but all living in two adjacent properties....
I was discussing this very issue with him, and explaining that the disquiet many British indigenous people felt was nothing to do with racism - it was simply a discomfiture at being quite bluntly, outnumbered...
This is what he said:
'Well, in a few years, you won't have to worry. You will definitely be in the minority. You see, you English people have it bred into you that one or two kids is fine...and you'll always think that way...we have always had big families...It's part of our cultutre and tradition.... and just moving country isn't going to stop us....With the benefits and handouts available here, we don't have to riot, or fight on the streets, or demand our rights...We'll simply breed you out! Then you and your f***ing white english friends will have to dance to our tune!"
And he laughed, as did his friends around him.....and he meant it.
This aspect of the discussion is one which a former member was unable to digest, and felt that some comments made in a previous thread were threatening, prejudial and bigotted... He referred this unease as "velvet racism" and whilst I could understand the viewpoint he held, I could not make him understand that there are two sides to every coin....
There are sadly all too many racists on both sides of the issue, but there are many who do not bear animosity or ill-will...they are simply greatly disconcerted by the balance being tipped excessively in one direction, purely and simply down to numbers....
Why should this not be a valid issue?
Oh, man, it's good to have you back, Simon. I loved this post. These three things are the core and I couldn't agree more.
Fede,
I understand your point, too. I'm just not completely sure about the discomfort of the "indigenous" English not being racist in nature. I think the discomfort would be there if, say, the French were to overtake the population of England in numbers, or the Italians, or Indians, or Pakistanis or Russians or any other group that wasn't Anglo Saxon. No matter how you look at it, it's still racism I think. Or at the very least culturalism. It's about people who are different coming into our countries. But the problem is these are not our countries. They're plots of land, soil, rock with imaginary, arbitrary borders. The English are not the indigenous population of Britain any more than white Canadians are indigenous to Canada and this part of the argument can go on and on and on into the recesses of ancient history.
The rule of law has been firmly established in Britain for over 800 years. What difference would it make if England did become a majority Pakistani country in population? I'm sure the Pakistani man you were speaking with meant what he said but I doubt that those are the feelings of Pakistani people in general. Whenever we feel fear from a perceived threat we become rigid in our thinking. We all do this. But this issue is about loosening up that rigidity and becoming more flexible in our thinking and in our ways of seeing the world. We all want to be happy and free from suffering which puts everyone on the same page to start with. Although suffering may not be any less now than it was 2500 years ago, we have evolved socially, legally and technologically. We still live in an age of reason. If we can refrain from pushing back unless our lives are directly threatened I see no reason why the populations of the "third world" should not enjoy the fruits of "first world", particularly because they were the ones who manufactured those fruits for pennies in factories in their own countries. There's room for all of us.
He went over to the Buddha but was put off when he saw the Buddha's shaven head-a sign of a nobody.
"What caste are you?" he asked.
"I am not a brahman, a prince, a farmer, or any other caste. I am one who understands how existence comes into being. Your question about caste is irrelevant."
"You seem a wise man and so I want to give you this offering of cake. I like to make offerings, for I feel they will bring me merit. Can you tell me what makes an offering effective for merit?"
The Buddha replied: "Since you are searching for an understanding, listen carefully.
Don't ask about caste or riches but instead ask about conduct. Look at the flames of a fire. Where do they come from? From a piece of wood-and it doesn't matter what wood. In the same way, a wise person can come from wood of any sort. It is through firmness and restraint and a sense of truth that one becomes noble, not through caste.
[Sutta Nipata]
In the Christian scriptures, we can read that there is no distinction to be made between Jew and Greek, male and female. This fact has, of course, not stopped the Dutch Reformed Church providing the theology for apartheid or the Catholic Church in Austria from requiring the faithful to vote Ja to the Anschluss.
Fede: the point you make is a crucial one. It is possible that, once again, an incoming poulation will outweigh the incumbents here in the UK - and not for the first time. Different communities have experienced this already. 40-odd years ago, Enoch Powell prophesied "rivers of blood" because of immigration. What seems to be missing in this dialogue is any sense that we could be planning right now for this fact. We should be asking how this new situation can be handled in peace and with justice for all.
Such planning can only take place where there is genuine respect and goodwill between communities.
It may be that history is now against the 'white' groups of peoples. We have to hope, and work to avoid an outcome where we come to experience what we imposed on other nations, becoming the slaves/serfs/indentured servants of a new dominance.
I was thinking the same things, Simon. You put it better, though.
Thanks, Fede! This is a good thread, isn't it? I loved what Shambala wrote.
Hi, Shambala. Great post! I don't think I've extended my welcome yet so...Welcome! Nice to meet you.
Brigid