Suffering should be welcomed - Ajahn Sumedho

Floating_Abu

"In the First Noble Truth, the Buddha proclaimed that 'there is dukkha (suffering).' It is put into the context of a 'Noble Truth' rather than a dismal reality. If we look at it as a dismal reality, what happens? 'Life is just suffering, it's all just suffering. You get old, you get sick and then die. You have to lose all your friends: "All that is mine, beloved and pleasing, will become otherwise, will become separated from me." That's all it's about; it's just dukkha from beginning to end'. There's nothing noble in that, is there? It's just pessimistic and depressing seeing it in terms of, 'I don't like it. I don't want suffering. What a bad joke God played on us creating this mess. And me being born in this mess, to live just to get old. What am I living for? Just to get old, get sick and die'. Of course, that's very depressing. That's not a Noble Truth. You're creating a problem around the way things are. With the Noble Truth, 'there is suffering,' the advice to deal with this suffering is to welcome it, to understand it, to open to it, to admit it, to begin to notice it and accept it. It's a willingness to embrace and learn from that which we don't like and don't want - the pain and the irritation, whether it's physical, mental or emotional.



To understand suffering is to open to it. We say, 'We understand suffering because it's...' We rationalise it, but that's not understanding. It's in welcoming the suffering that we are experiencing - our frustration, despair, pain, irritation, boredom, fear and desires - just welcoming, opening, accepting. Then this is a Noble Truth, isn't it? Our humanity then is being noble; it's an ariyan truth. This word ariya means 'noble'. What is this English word 'noble'? It's a kind of grand quality; it rises up. If you're noble, you rise up to things. You don't just say 'Oh, life is misery and I want to hide away from it. I can't bear it'. There's nothing noble in that; or in blaming - 'God, why did you create this mess? It's your fault,' if you're brought up as a Christian. I used to feel furious with God. I remember as a child thinking that if I were God I wouldn't have created pain. You fall down and hurt yourself and you think, 'Why does God allow this? Why did He create a realm where there is so much pain?' My mother could never answer that question very well, because the pain was seen as something wrong. Or is pain a Noble Truth? Is loss, separation, all these experiences that we all have to have in this human realm, a Noble Truth? Seeing it in terms of a Noble Truth, rather than complaining and blaming, this is what I'm pointing to.

We can look at things in different ways. We can choose. The programme from the culture and family that we're born into might not be a very good programme. Sometimes it is, but still it's limited. Now we have this opportunity to explore, to investigate reality, to know it in a direct way.

Enlightenment is not something remote and impossible."

Full teaching: Suffering should be welcomed - Luang Por Sumedho

zenmyste

tell this to the buddhist monk who KILLED A DOG because it was barking..
Sicko...

(i can see it now, just because the dog was barking too loud, he jumos over the wall and SMASHES it over the skull... DISGUSTING!)

like i said, dont tell us about accepting suffering etc etc,, to some of us, its common sense to accept suffering, obviously not common sense for the MONK who couldnt accept a barking DOG.

What a joke.

Floating_Abu

Dear @zenmyste

Are you angry? Because how different is that to a person who kicks or kills barking dogs?

Ajahn Sumedho's advice is for the student who wishes to understand and apply practice. It is not for everyone of course - and attackers who subdue their own anger/resentment often see it come up in other ways, for example, here.

At least the Buddhist path - for those whom practice - can be more honest then the subdued and repressed anger that is common in this world, no?

Well wishes,
Abu

zenmyste

Dear @zenmyste

Are you angry? Because how different is that to a person who kicks or kills barking dogs?

are you joking ???

I think we all know what the DIFFERENCE is.

I wouldnt SMASH someone over the head and kill them ''just because im angry''

((and if this is how buddhists talk, then screw it. Theres some things in life that are right and wrong, No matter what the buddha says. YOU DO NOT GO ROUND KILLING PEOPLE/ANIMALS BECAUSE YOU ARE ANGRY.

COMMON SENSE TO ME.

Floating_Abu

No, but the root is the same that is all I am saying.

Good travels, Sir.

Jeffrey

@zenmyste, I think he is saying the dharma applies to every situation. He is not saying it's okay to chop dog with an axe. Does that make sense?

Cinorjer

The "suffering should be welcomed" teaching is about accepting and seeing the distractions and iritations in life as part of the whole instead of something wrong with the world. @zenmyste, in the case of the barking dog, the barking was a small irritation that grew into a huge thing in the monk's mind, leading to selfish and hurtful actions on his part. No place in the teaching does it say this makes the attack on the dog correct. The monk obviously has a problem, and so does the temple if they accept this. So does the local community, if they accept their monks acting like this. Beyond this, what else can we do?

I have reached the age where I have old, familiar aches and pains that have become my companions in life. This body has taken a bit of abuse in the past and made it this far in pretty good condition, but nothing lasts forever. Old age is dukkha. Does that make old age something that can be avoided by the enlightened? Of course not. The irritation of old pains is part of growing old. It just is.

AllbuddhaBound

Welcoming suffering is a lot different than condoning dog beating. To welcome suffering does not mean to go out and create more suffering. It is more like when suffering occurs, welcome the emotion it raises, accept the thoughts and turmoil that goes on inside of us. Sadness is part of suffering. Feel your sadness. Anger is part of suffering. Be okay with experiencing your anger. Open yourself to all of your range of emotions and thoughts. Not just the vengeful ones. These vengeful ones are the normal reaction when someone kills a dog. People fixate on their rage and it really does not solve anything.

DairyLama

Old age is dukkha. Does that make old age something that can be avoided by the enlightened? Of course not. The irritation of old pains is part of growing old. It just is.

But enlightenment is synonymous with the cessation of suffering ( dukkha ) - so presumably one who is enlightened doesn't experience old age as dukkha

BonsaiDoug

The "suffering should be welcomed" teaching is about accepting and seeing the distractions and iritations in life as part of the whole instead of something wrong with the world.

Agree. One of my favorite quotes from Pema Chödrön: "There’s a richness to all of the smelly stuff that we so dislike and so little desire."

Floating_Abu

Old age is dukkha. Does that make old age something that can be avoided by the enlightened? Of course not. The irritation of old pains is part of growing old. It just is.

But enlightenment is synonymous with the cessation of suffering ( dukkha ) - so presumably one who is enlightened doesn't experience old age as dukkha

Quote -

It was after 10 p.m., and I saw that Luang Pu was sitting and resting, so I went to inform him, "Luang Pu, Ajaan Khao has died."

Instead of asking when or how, Luang Pu said,

"Ah, yes. Ajaan Khao is finally done with the burden of hauling his sankharas around. I visited him four years ago and saw all the difficulties his physical sankharas were giving him. He had to have other people looking after him all the time. As for me, I have no bad karma with regard to the body. But as for bad karma associated with the body, even noble ones — no matter what the level of their attainment — still have to contend with these things until they're finally released from them and no longer involved with them. The normal state of the mind is that it has to live with things of this sort. But as for the mind that's well-trained, when these things arise it can immediately let them go and maintain its peace, without worries, without attachments, free from the burden of having to be involved with them. That's all there is."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/dune/giftsheleft.html

Theswingisyellow

All that we experience is our lives. Don't shun any of it, suffering or otherwise. Practice and strengthen that which is skillfull, don't practice and consequntly weaken that which is unskillful.
Even the good things in our lives will cause us to suffer if we forget they are not self and inconstant.
@Floating_Abu thanks for the article and that beautiful quote by Luang Pu.

Floating_Abu

DairyLama

Quote -

Instead of asking when or how, Luang Pu said,
"The normal state of the mind is that it has to live with things of this sort. But as for the mind that's well-trained, when these things arise it can immediately let them go and maintain its peace, without worries, without attachments, free from the burden of having to be involved with them. That's all there is."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/dune/giftsheleft.html

So is he agreeing with the view that dukkha ceases for an enlightened one? It sounds like it.

Theswingisyellow

"So is he agreeing with the view that dukkha ceases for an enlightened one? It sounds like it"

If one maintains one's equanimity and realization that all is is not self and inconstant can one really suffer from dukkha or does one simply experience appearances as they arise? We all will all experience birth, aging, sickness and death, no one's getting out alive, not even the Buddha. How we choose to encounter those things is very much up to us.
All the best,
Todd