Sam Harris on death and the present moment

SattvaPaul

twobitbob

Very interesting. Especially like how he got a roomful of scholars and sceptics to meditate for a few minutes.
His comments on framing gave me much food for thought.

Tosh

I enjoyed it; he basically gave what sounded like a lesson on Buddhism, with a few differences around the death theme, in that he has reduced mind to brain, and once that ceases - everything stops.

But I kinda think that's what happens anyway, or I'm not overly concerned what happens after death.

SattvaPaul

Mind is reducible to brain is the materialistic viewpoint and seems to be the mainstream view, but it raises other questions.

SattvaPaul

But I like listening to Harris, he is an antidote to my largely subconscious fears that being raised as a Christian instilled in me.

Tosh

But I like listening to Harris, he is an antidote to my largely subconscious fears that being raised as a Christian instilled in me.

I listened to his one on freewill too; thanks to your link. I copy them to mp3 and listen to them when I'm chilling in the bath or running.



I like his stuff too; thanks for introducing me to it.

Tosh

But I like listening to Harris, he is an antidote to my largely subconscious fears that being raised as a Christian instilled in me.

Don't you think there are religious themes in Buddhism that can be just as negative as any Hell fire Baptist church? We have hell realms in Buddhism where pretty nasty stuff is meant to happen. Karma can sound like some sort of cosmic justice system too; just like a God.

I'd be interested in your thoughts?

SattvaPaul

I agree. There is stuff in Buddhism which sounds as bad, if not worse, than Christian hell and so on. Karma, understood in a mechanical way, is one example. I was raised a Catholic so I don't know about Baptist hell, is it worse? :hair:

Also there are many supernatural claims in Buddhism that I'm not sure about. Interestingly, I am quite open to the idea of rebirth, but understandably I'm quite reluctant to consider all these claims about Buddhist hells and so on. In the talk I posted, someone asks Harris towards the end about a very potent hallucinogenic drug (forgot the name of it now) and he describes the kind of visions people have. I had a thought, if the mind/consciousness carries on after brain death, and can create all sorts of visions based presumably on our karma, there could be some scary stuff that awaits us...

But, I've participated once in an empowerment and we were given some herbal pill and told that if we take it, we won't go to hell. I'm feeling funny writing this, not because what it says may sound silly, but because I may be breaking some samaya or something..

On the other hand, in light of available evidence (and intuition) I'd have to agree with the atheist death-as-the-end view. But then it raises all the other questions - if it's the end, what meaning is there to Dharma practice and to life, etc.

What are your thoughts about this?

Tosh

What are your thoughts about this?

I don't give it much thought any more, to be honest. I'm kinda sure that once my body dies, my egoic personality goes with it. My consciousness? Who knows?

As for you point about hallucinogenic drugs; I'm pretty sure these experiences are all matter related, and when we die, the matter corrupts - so I doubt there'll be any of these visions when we're dead.

I think death will be like what it was before I was born; that's not so bad. I don't like the idea of things still happening when I'm not around mind!

PrairieGhost

I'm not sure how death would work. There doesn't seem to be any reason to believe in it except for fabricated narratives.

I went through a period of fearing death a while back, and it sort of resolved itself wordlessly, in the way things are.

Tosh

I'm not sure how death would work. There doesn't seem to be any reason to believe in it except for fabricated narratives.

Defining 'life' is just as tough! Science seems to argue over what's alive and what's not; coming up with a definition isn't as easy as it appears.

PrairieGhost

Yes, good point. Where does the body end and dead matter begin, where does life end and death begin? Death only begins for other people who can see a corpse.

twobitbob

On the other hand, in light of available evidence (and intuition) I'd have to agree with the atheist death-as-the-end view. But then it raises all the other questions - if it's the end, what meaning is there to Dharma practice and to life, etc.

What are your thoughts about this?

The Buddha explained this in the Kalama sutra with the four solaces, didn't he?

"'Suppose there is no hereafter and there is no fruit, no result, of deeds done well or ill. Yet in this world, here and now, free from hatred, free from malice, safe and sound, and happy, I keep myself.' This is the second solace found by him.

SattvaPaul

Yes, actually that makes sense.

I've just watched the second video - about free will - and although I resisted the idea at first, actually it brought a huge relief. I saw from another angle that there truly is no "doer", and actually whatever we do, it's all the result of causes and conditions.

youmaywalkalone

I have come to the conclusion that the body is only here for us to manipulate the physical world. Once the body dies the conscious goes on. Also I beloved in past lives, like depending on certain pictures I see, particularly ones I have or haven't seen. Like ancient pictures and the feelings they give me or memories that come to me that I have not lived in this life. Its a very interesting experience.

SattvaPaul

@youmaywalkalone,
Interesting to hear about your experiences. I regard personal experiences of this kind as a sort of evidence, though not in scientific terms.

Could you elaborate on your first sentence where you say "the body is only here for us to manipulate the physical world"?

youmaywalkalone

I mean that as the body and conscious are seperate. And the brain is basically just a capsule where it resides until our body dies. And even then while meditating I believe astral projection is possible. I have never done it though.

youmaywalkalone

And I just meant the past lives thing as to what I was perceiving. It was an odd experience

misecmisc1

Thanks for sharing this video.