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Can a Buddha still get Alzheimers?

zenmystezenmyste Veteran
edited June 2012 in Buddhism Basics
In another thread i asked if Buddha would have felt pain if he cut himself and would he even say 'ouch, that hurt'

Some people talk of him as if he was some sort of Robot who wouldnt feel pain.

So i have to ask and look foward to the comments and opinions of some; Can a Buddha get struck down with Alzheimers'

Imagin what would have happened if, 2500 years ago, buddha caught this disease, what would all his followers have thought?

#The reason i ask these kind of questions is just to get an 'understanding' of peoples opinion on what they think a Buddha is, and how they 'think' he'd react in certain situations etc etc#
[Plus, i just genuinly find some opinions hilarious and some interesting]

Cheers!

Comments

  • Floating_AbuFloating_Abu Veteran
    Whoever seeks me in form
    Or in sound
    Walks the heterodox path
    And cannot perceive the Tathagata

    - The Buddha
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited June 2012
    Yes if Shakyamuni's karma had been to get Alzheimers he would have. But he didn't because he had spent many lifetimes creating good karma. Once he was a Buddha he was beyond the mentations of neurons. I think what you are REALLY asking is what is a buddha? Is it certain brain wirings? Buddhism is not a scientific materialistic tradition though they are not against research in the 21st century.

    If the Buddha can die then he can also get alzheimers. If his death does not remove his Buddhahood then alzheimers could not remove his Buddhahood.
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    I think what you are REALLY asking is what is a buddha?
    Is a Buddha different to different traditions?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Yes if Shakyamuni's karma had been to get Alzheimers he would have. But he didn't because he had spent many lifetimes creating good karma. Once he was a Buddha he was beyond the mentations of neurons. I think what you are REALLY asking is what is a buddha? Is it certain brain wirings? Buddhism is not a scientific materialistic tradition though they are not against research in the 21st century.

    If the Buddha can die then he can also get alzheimers. If his death does not remove his Buddhahood then alzheimers could not remove his Buddhahood.
    So you're saying disease is caused by karma?

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    @vinylyn, karma is like the sun rises in the east. . I do believe the world is more mysterious than we like to think.

    You get all sorts of beliefs in these ancient traditions. For example Gampopa stated that bad breath is caused by lying. Personally I believe without karma there would be no consequence for mischief. There must be some negative consequence and where do you draw the line and say that is too insensitive to say was caused by negative karma? Obviously you wouldn't bring up karma to a sick friend unless you knew they were a believer in the sense of Buddhism, karma.

    From my beliefs samsara has no beginning, but does have an end. Nirvana has no end but does have a beginning. Thus we have endless negative karma. That means just because you have alzheimers does not mean that you can't have some other calamity such as cutting your finger.

    All of that message is to work hard to practice to get on the nirvana wavelength if it can be called that.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Alzheimers is a human physical affliction, and the Buddha was a physical human.
    Enlightenment would not prevent the ravages of age.
    He was apparently a seriously sick man when he died, and some research would indicate that had he been in prime health, his final meal would not have precipitated his death.
    so if iy is not an unlikely probability that he was vulnerable to severe gastric disorder, there is nothing to negate any other affliction.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited June 2012
    @zenmyste I didn't see your thread where you asked if the Buddha would feel pain. I tend to be the odd Dakini out when I insist that if the Buddha were stabbed, he'd say "ow!" But he would. Who wouldn't? The Buddha was subject to the same frailties as anyone with a body and a nervous system has. In his old age he had arthritis or some sort of back pain from long hours of meditation, and some sort of digestive problems that had their root in the phase of his quest when he underwent austerities and ate almost nothing.

    The question isn't so much could/would a Buddha get such afflictions. The question is, would he suffer from them, or would he stay focused on the positive and continue his mission in life to the extent possible, rather than ruminate on his aches and pains, thereby creating unnecessary suffering for himself. How would he handle the aches and pains, is the question, and what can we learn from his skillful handling of them?
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited June 2012
    If the Buddha can die then he can also get alzheimers. If his death does not remove his Buddhahood then alzheimers could not remove his Buddhahood.
    I'm inclined to agree. This reminds me of something Thanissaro Bhikkhu mentioned in one of his Dhamma talks regarding Ajahn Suwat, a former teachers of his:
    Several years back when I had my last visit with Ajaan Suwat, he had been in a car accident and suffered some brain damage, but his training in meditation hadn’t abandoned him. He was able to tell when the mind was sending him weird perceptions, skewed perceptions. As he said, that thing he got from his meditation, that didn’t change; but he began to notice that his brain wasn’t working properly. What saved him from falling for those perceptions was the mindfulness and concentration he had developed in his meditation. Even in his last months, he could recognize when the mind wasn’t functioning right.
    Also:
    The last time I saw Ajaan Suwat, shortly before his death, he mentioned that his brain was beginning to malfunction, that it was giving him all sorts of weird perceptions. But he added, "That thing I got through the meditation, though, that hasn't changed; it's still there," which is why the suffering of the body didn't weigh on his mind, why the weird perceptions produced by the brain didn't deceive him. He showed that it's possible not to suffer in the process of growing ill and dying. And when something like that is possible, you really want to aim all of your efforts in that direction. As one of the chants says, don't be the sort of person who later regrets that you didn't take advantage of the opportunity to practice when you were still healthy and strong.
  • PHennings12PHennings12
    A true buddhist doesn't look to others opinions about things. He/she looks within and seeks the attainment of enlightenment. Looking to find out what Shakyamuni Buddha would have done through the eyes of other people's imagination upon a non-existant event in the past will not help you in this endeavor.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    @ PHennings12

    Oh, gad, to hear that's there is such a thing as a true buddhist and that the poor bugger is still befouled by the seeking. I'm sending merit as I type.

    I do agree with your point about attending to the business at hand.
  • TheswingisyellowTheswingisyellow Trying to be open to existence Samsara Veteran
    To the OP:
    Yes. Also cancer, diabetes, stroke, heart attack, ect...Those who become awake are human beings and as such are subject to the illnesses of the body and its eventual deterioration.
  • betaboybetaboy Veteran
    With Alzheimer's, Is it possible that the Buddha could just forget he is Buddha?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    A true buddhist doesn't look to others opinions about things. He/she looks within and seeks the attainment of enlightenment. Looking to find out what Shakyamuni Buddha would have done through the eyes of other people's imagination upon a non-existant event in the past will not help you in this endeavor.
    And yet you are reading these threads.

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    With Alzheimer's, Is it possible that the Buddha could just forget he is Buddha?
    Yes, but he wouldn't worry about it. ;)
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    . How would he handle the aches and pains, is the question, and what can we learn from his skillful handling of them?
    I think that's the important point - the ability to graciously accept aging and disease.
  • twobitbobtwobitbob
    If neurodegenerative disorders, like alzheimer's, belongs to natural processes outside of one's actions, like utu niyama, or dhamma niyama, then it will be process independent of one's karma and anyone could get it if the physical conditions are right.

    Interesting to note that people with neurodegenerative disorders will often revert their behaviours from life. Habits die hard. But if you've got good habits...
This discussion has been closed.