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The workings of the heavenly realms.

LostLightLostLight Veteran
edited June 2012 in Buddhism Basics
I was watching a buddhist sermon yesterday, and the head monk was talking about the heaven and hell realms a bit. He made it seem that even though the heaven and hell realms exist, a person who goes to either after this life remains the self from the previous life, instead of being completely rebirthed. This confused me. Is a heavenly realm simply more time for a person to reach Nibbana with less suffering? I know life in all realms is impermanent, but now I have slightly conflicting views of how they work. Not only that, I watched a Dalai Lama speech in which he spoke: if a person achieved a realm of heaven they would be able to continue the search for truth and reach the "end".

Could the many wise minds of this site help enlighten me on this topic? No pun intended.

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    "If it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true."

    Now, I'm truly not accusing anyone of lying deliberately, but my guess is, this first monk may have been from the Mahayana tradition? I'm just guessing here, I could be wrong...
    See, the body, or 'person' doesn't continue after death, so maybe he meant that the stream-consciousness remains in the same kind of mind-frame as the one it was...
    There's a lot in Mahayana teachings and texts I can neither understand, nor get my head round, even if I do....
    I tell you what I do in situations like this, no matter what the source.
    I say, "Meh... maybe, maybe not. we'll see."
    Keep an open mind, lay it aside, like a book that's a bit heavy going (like critcial analysis of the astrophysical properties of the sub-atomic particles in the central core of a meteor, for example) and either come back to it, or don't.
    It's all hypothesis, because to be really, really honest, there is no clear-cut, unequivocal, definite, reliable and absolutely accurate account of what happens when we finish with this existence.
    so, I don't think any answer will provide a solution to your question. but you'll get more views to ponder.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited June 2012
    He made it seem that even though the heaven and hell realms exist, a person who goes to either after this life remains the self from the previous life, instead of being completely rebirthed.
    AND
    If a person achieved a realm of heaven they would be able to continue the search for truth and reach the "end".


    Both statements confuse this zen view

    What continues on( if I was to care at all) is not supposed to be the self......
    but perhaps he was really just focusing on the carrot & stick aspect of the realms.
    It's a shame since the realm teachings work so well as a teaching of the here & now with out running into the mystical rabbit hole beyond.
    AND
    The problem with the heavenly realm is that one supposedly becomes too content in it to train.....but if Bodhisattva's do visit there, they must be really nasty buggers to get any work done.
  • ZeroZero Veteran

    He made it seem that even though the heaven and hell realms exist, a person who goes to either after this life remains the self from the previous life, instead of being completely rebirthed. This confused me.
    I know life in all realms is impermanent, but now I have slightly conflicting views of how they work. Not only that, I watched a Dalai Lama speech in which he spoke: if a person achieved a realm of heaven they would be able to continue the search for truth and reach the "end".
    It confused you because no-one knows the answer... even if we did, it probably wouldnt make sense to our monkey mind...
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    edited June 2012
    First one must deconstruct what is meant by realm. Which in turn one must deconstruct the notion of a place.

    We believe in objective places that are in existence apart from the mind.

    The world is mind. Thus an angry mind is a hell realm. A joyful mind is a heaven realm.

    A mind that is perpetually joyful has a greater chance to realize the truths proposed by buddhism. Hence ethics is taught to condition concentration to condition insight. This isn't a 100% requirement but a suggestion in the path towards liberation from suffering.

    So first one must deconstruct the idea that there is an objective realm apart from the mind.

    All realms or whatever we experience is dependent on the mind. If there is an objective realm then it couldn't be accessed because to interact requires process, thus making the realm not objective, not separate, not independent.

    Hope this brings more clarity. Heaven realms can also trap beings. Thus it is a path but no guarantee for release. It just is more likely to condition beings to go for full release.
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