is enlightenment only for 'buddhists' or is it possible other philosophers were Enlightend?

zenmyste

Is enlightenment only a buddhist concept? Because what if some people are enlightened but don't know of the term enlightenment therefore don't know they are enlightened?

The other philosophers I'm refering to are people like;

Socrates
Epictetus
Marcus aurelius
Confucious
Lao tzu (tao te ching)
Zeno

These guys could have been enlightened, right?
Let's imagin buddha and epictetus MET (obviously impossible), but I believe they could both have learnt a lot from each other!

What do u think? Do you believe others could have found the 'way' to enlightenment? Or buddhism is the ONLY way?

federica

absolutely.
Definitely only Buddhists know what enlightenment is and can achieve it.
Everybody else is consigned to the hell realms until they get it right.

:crazy:

The above is a facetious and trite remark.

The question is - how would anyone know...... I mean really....?
How would we?
These people are examples of possibles, and even then, it's just your opinion.

Yet another imponderable....

Cloud

Siddhartha Gautama couldn't have become enlightened if you had to be of a certain religion or philosophy to awaken to the truth. The way things really are is the way things really are, and if the conditions are right...

However after studying a lot of philosophy I don't think philosophers were enlightened in the sense Buddhism uses the term, nor that enlightenment is something actually taught anywhere other than in Buddhism. Buddhist practice fosters the right conditions for awakening that are otherwise rarely the case.

And the Buddha was not a philosopher, so this "other philosophers" business starts off on the wrong foot. The Buddha taught the Noble Eightfold Path that we could directly experience our true nature through our own efforts. He didn't just say this is reasonable or logical and so you should believe it... he said here's how you find out for yourself, and taught quite extensively concerning the origin and cessation of all forms of suffering.

vinlyn

The primary reason I gave up the Catholic Church even before I discovered Buddhist principles was the Catholic Church's insistence on the necessity of confession to a priest as a requirement for salvation. To me it smacks of the "my religion is better than your religion" mantra that is so common in -- perhaps -- all religions.

So, because of the same general principle, I cannot believe that only Buddhists can be __________ (fill in the blank).

zenknight

In my opinion I always thought that Jesus was enlighten. I would imagine there were many more as well. Once you become one with Universal consciousness and you see reality(emptiness) as it really is, I would imagine it would be impossible to describe it. I think Jesus described it as best he could. Wasn't Lao Tzu enlighten? The Tao Te Ching sounds like someone describing enlightenment to me. It sounds like Socrates figured it out. I always believed he was enlighten. I believe all these great teachers were enlighten and taught us part of the puzzle. I admit the Buddha was the king of psychology. His understanding of how the human mind works amazes me to this day. I just think Jesus simplified it for us. If we are all one than hurting another is like hurting ourselves. Once we understand this, we will treat our neihgbors as we would like to be treated. But it seems that even that simple lesson is still too much for humanity to grasp.

lamaramadingdong

There are many ways to climb the same mountain.

Zero

it's just your opinion.
Yet another imponderable....

:thumbup: :hrm:

B5C

Anybody could or can be a Buddha.

DairyLama

There are many ways to climb the same mountain.

I suspect they are different mountains, but maybe the view is similar?

DairyLama

The primary reason I gave up the Catholic Church even before I discovered Buddhist principles was the Catholic Church's insistence on the necessity of confession to a priest as a requirement for salvation. (fill in the blank).

Quite a good system though - you can get up to all kinds of naughtiness, then you get forgiven for a small penance.

zenmyste

There are many ways to climb the same mountain.

I suspect they are different mountains, but maybe the view is similar?

perhaps the views are not the same..

Different mountains = different views.
Same mountains = same view.

Our mountain might be different to siddhartha's (or it could be the same, thats up to us to figure out)

vinlyn

The primary reason I gave up the Catholic Church even before I discovered Buddhist principles was the Catholic Church's insistence on the necessity of confession to a priest as a requirement for salvation. (fill in the blank).

Quite a good system though - you can get up to all kinds of naughtiness, then you get forgiven for a small penance.

I don't think you quite "get" confession.

DairyLama

The primary reason I gave up the Catholic Church even before I discovered Buddhist principles was the Catholic Church's insistence on the necessity of confession to a priest as a requirement for salvation. (fill in the blank).

Quite a good system though - you can get up to all kinds of naughtiness, then you get forgiven for a small penance.

I don't think you quite "get" confession.

That's what the priest said too.