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Which Zen Masters said meditation 'posture' wasnt necessarily important?
zenmyste
Veteran
I remember reading months ago about an ancient zen master commenting on how posture isnt all that important.
I also remember reading about another zen master who said something like 'zazen wont get you anywhere, we may aswell not sit in meditating and instead he favoured Koan practice instead of sitting zazen'
Any idea who these masters were pls?
I also remember reading about another zen master who said something like 'zazen wont get you anywhere, we may aswell not sit in meditating and instead he favoured Koan practice instead of sitting zazen'
Any idea who these masters were pls?
0
Comments
Here's a recent Tricycle article that expounds on Dogen's teaching:
http://www.tricycle.com/insights/think-not-thinking
Dogen, like most other masters, correctly expounded both the importance of correct posture for Zazen while also lecturing not to confuse correct posture for Zazen.
The importance of a correct zazen posture as body & mind are one, while also stating that Zazen is the very dropping of body & mind.
I remember reading months ago about an ancient zen master commenting on how posture isnt all that important i cant think of who it was.
What about this story? Hui Neng is another famous case. He attained enlightenment without going through normal zen-training, or so the story says.
In his Sutra he emphasizes Tatata/suchness.
We don’t have to stop all mental activity in meditation. We don’t need to imitate dead objects. Instead we should realize the essence of mind. And when we do we can live in this world without being caught up in it. That’s because phenomena are manifestations of emptiness. When our mind is clear we see their suchness.
That’s my personal way of rephrasing it. You can find it here
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/huineng/content.html
The problem with looking for an old Master talking about posture is that the subject isn't really valid for them. Sitting on the floor with legs crossed might be an achievement or special thing we have to learn here in the West, but for them, it's how people sit. If you sit that way from childhood, your body finds it natural. When you're told to sit down, you look for a piece of floor and fold your legs to keep them out of the way and that also gives you balance so you can use your hands to eat or whatever. The agonizing half hour with legs screaming for us is a relaxing sitdown for someone raised that way.
Sit straight on a firm kitchen chair, shoulders back, cross your ankles, put your hands on your lap, and you're experiencing the same relaxed yet alert condition of any meditator in a zazen hall.
Do what feels comfortable for you and seems to work, and to heck with the "rules". There are monks who spend their life in correct lotus posture with hands in the perfect mudra position who never find their Buddha Nature. Another famous monk bent down to pick up a stone while working his garden and was enlightened.
“Truly, you need to recognize that a beginner’s meditation is their first time of doing seated meditation, and that one’s first time of doing seated meditation is the first instance of being seated Buddha.”
And Brad Warner writes in his blog:
"But I did tell them that sitting in chairs was not zazen. Zazen is a physical practice. To sit in a chair and call it zazen is incorrect. It's not that sitting on a chair will lead you to Satan and cause your eternal soul to burn forever in Hell. It's not evil. It's just not zazen."
Source: http://hardcorezen.blogspot.com/2011/11/sitting-in-chairs-is-not-zazen-part-one.html
Who was this monk called?
I'm so sorry, I couldn't resist
require distracting muscular tension to maintain or one that doesn't foster a stupor.
Most folks just pick a classically tested posture because a meditation practise is hard enough on it's own without throwing in possible physical handicaps.
Zen flesh/ Zen bones mentions many such Monk's "ah Ha" moments off the zafu
but what is usually ignored is the years of ardent meditation practise that allowed this awakening to occur.
The story I was told claimed he was working in the garden and threw the stone, but here's one where he was sweeping and heard the stone strike bamboo.
(snip)
Kyogen was a scholar of great learning, and for
some time, this stood in the way of his
enlightenment.
One day, Isan asked Kyogen, "When you were
with our teacher, Hyakujo, you were clever
enough to give ten answers to a single question,
and hundreds of answers to ten questions.
Tell me this: What is your real self – the self that
existed before you came out of your mother's
womb, before you knew East from West?"
At this question, Kyogen was stupefied and did
not know what to say. He racked his brains and
offered all sorts of answers, but Isan brushed
them aside.
At last Kyogen said, "I beg you, please explain it
to me."
Isan replied, "What I say belongs to my own
understanding. How can that benefit your mind's
eye?"
Kyogen went through all his books and the notes
he had made on authorities of every school, but
could find no words to use as an answer to Isan's
question. Sighing to himself, he said, "You cannot
fill an empty stomach with paintings of rice cakes."
Sadly he left Isan, and took on the self-appointed
job of grave-keeper.
One day, when he was sweeping the ground, a
stone struck a bamboo.
Kyogen stood speechless, forgetting himself for a
while.
Then, suddenly, bursting into loud laughter, he
became enlightened.
"On the proper way to sing, the birds and frogs disagree." Old Korean proverb.
1) Whether sitting on a cushion on the floor or in a chair, the seat should be flat, not tilting to the right or left, or to the back or front.
2) The legs are crossed comfortably in front of you- or, if you're sitting on a chair, the feet are flat on the floor, and the knees are a few inches apart.
3) The torso (from the head to the seat) is upright, with a strong back and an open front. If sitting in a chair, it's best not to lean back. If you start to slouch, simply sit upright again.
4) The hands are open, palms down, resting on the thighs.
5) The eyes are open, indicating the attitude of remaining awake and relaxed with all that occurs. The eye gaze is slightly downward and directed about four to six feet in front.
6) The mouth is very slightly open so that the jaw is relaxed and air can move easily through both mouth and nose. The tip of the tongue can be placed on the roof of the mouth.
Simple and easy. Posure is important, but don't twist yourself up over perfection or doing it the "one and only right way".
I think the straight back is important (but don’t overdo it). These little benches on which you can sit with your knees on the ground are great. Sitting on a bench like that will put you in a perfect position. Pelvis slightly tilted; backbone in a position as if you’re standing up. Semi lotus works too. Full lotus is for acrobats.
It’s just the most comfortable position when you get used to it; the most comfortable position that is for not moving yet not falling asleep; for meditating.
But I think formal meditation is only one way of giving the mind a piece of Zen. I’m convinced that a routine job which doesn’t occupy the mind will put us in roughly the same “position” where we cannot fall asleep and where the mind is not challenged or entertained for a longer period of time.
Making a long walk, or working in the garden will do the trick. It’s the kind of activity we can do with a meditating mind. We can meditate while walking just like we can dwell in fantasy while sitting in full lotus.
That’s the core of Hui Neng’s story. He had no formal Zen training but he had a routine job in the kitchen.
And I think it can be a shock when I seriously look at my fellow meditators. Sometime they appear to be the most self-obsessed people I ever met. That just puts formal meditation in perspective, for me.
"The one dharma has a thousand names: its appellations are each given in response to different conditions.” ~ Zen master Yen-shou
Yes, I see. Though presumably in light of the teachings on anatta / sunyata, this true nature isn't considered to be some kind of permanent soul or essence?