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what about the people who say 'buddhism goes over their head coz its all too deep for them..)

zenmystezenmyste Veteran
edited July 2012 in General Banter
I've come across some people who (mainly friends and family) etc
Who just don't like philosophy or any religions FULL STOP!
They say its all too deep and they just prefere to live life as it is..

So what's your opinions on these people?

Do you really believe they are 'missing' something in their life if they are not into Buddhism????

Comments

  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited July 2012
    You've got lots of questions lately, eh? :)

    If they don't want or need religion/philosophy, what's the problem? There is no problem.

    There are people who don't want to try new foods. Are they missing out? Well of course... there's always something to miss out on. That doesn't mean anything though, they're living their lives according to their own preferences.

    I think people who choose not to jump off of cliffs are missing out on a helluva lot of adrenaline, fear and sudden death. Why don't they do that? People are attracted to religions and philosophies when they have reason to be... just like people are attracted to Buddhism because they suffer.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Do you really believe they are 'missing' something in their life if they are not into Buddhism????
    Yes. But I'm biased. ;)
    Seriously, don't worry about what others think. Just meditate regularly and enjoy the journey.
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    You've got lots of questions lately, eh? :)
    Good thing though isn't it?

    I've read somewhere in zen that we should question 'everything'

    I have thousands of questions in my head..
    I guess I'm just interested in peoples opinions and thoughts. :)

  • SabreSabre Veteran
    It's their choice and I don't really worry about what path they take in life.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    I've come across some people who (mainly friends and family) etc
    Who just don't like philosophy or any religions FULL STOP!
    They say its all too deep and they just prefere to live life as it is..

    They prefer to live life as it is, continuously wanting to peruse pleasantness and continually wanting to avoid unpleasantness, which is how most people live their life. Not realizing that this whole endeavor is just impossible to do and not even realizing that they are trying to do the impossible, therefore they suffer. Then they die, never realizing that what they have been doing for their whole life, was impossible. They miss out on the fact that all this suffering ...is optional, entirely self created. They miss out on the peace that arises from the release of this continuous, never-ending, wanting and not wanting. That is unfortunate. That is a reason to have compassion for them, the good ones and the evil ones alike. That is a reason to help them whenever you can. That is a reason to never become angry with them. That is a reason to never speak harshly to them. That is a reason to always have a mind of good will towards them. Of course, all of that is easier said than done. But I guess that is why it's called "practice". :)


  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    They miss out on the fact that all this suffering ...is optional, entirely self created.
    But I've spoke to loads of people who understand that "suffering is optional" but they arnt necessarily buddhist..

    Not everyone 'has' to be buddhists to know 'suffering is optional.

    Even other philosophies and ideas have stated the same things for thousand of years.

    Take "stoicism" for example, according to stoics they say; there are some things in life that are beyond our control, but we can accept whatever happens calmly and dispassionately. Individuals, however, are responsible for their own actions, which they can examine and control through rigorous self-discipline.

    Suffering arises from trying to control what is uncontrollable, or from neglecting what is within our power. As part of the universal city that is the universe, human beings have a duty to care for all fellow humans. The person who follows these precepts will achieve happiness and peace of mind.

    ((Sounds simular to buddhism to me ! ))
    Do you really believe they are 'missing' something in their life if they are not into Buddhism????
    Yes. But I'm biased. ;).
    What could a stoic learn from buddhism then if buddhism is 'the only way' to inner peace.

    Stoics think they know the 'way'
    But ive heard buddhist say that buddhism is the only way to 'true' peace.
    Is that true?
    Or could stoics be right aswell?
  • BonsaiDougBonsaiDoug Simply, on the path. Veteran
    They prefer to live life as it is, continuously wanting to peruse pleasantness and continually wanting to avoid unpleasantness, which is how most people live their life. Not realizing that this whole endeavor is just impossible to do and not even realizing that they are trying to do the impossible, therefore they suffer. Then they die, never realizing that what they have been doing for their whole life, was impossible. They miss out on the fact that all this suffering ...is optional, entirely self created. They miss out on the peace that arises from the release of this continuous, never-ending, wanting and not wanting. That is unfortunate. That is a reason to have compassion for them, the good ones and the evil ones alike. That is a reason to help them whenever you can. That is a reason to never become angry with them. That is a reason to never speak harshly to them. That is a reason to always have a mind of good will towards them. Of course, all of that is easier said than done. But I guess that is why it's called "practice". :)
    Where's that Like button when you want it?! :thumbsup:
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Or could stoics be right as well?
    There's really only one way to find out - try it!
    ;)
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    Or could stoics be right as well?
    There's really only one way to find out - try it!
    ;)
    i know what i think.. thats why i asked because i like to know what others think (out of interest)

    I think there are truths in alot of different religions/philosophies..

    I dont believe for a minute that Buddhism is the ONLY path to happiness.

    It might be the 'only' path to get to where 'buddhism thinks happiness is'' but happiness can mean different things to different people, therefore in terms of 'inner happiness' i dont believe there is only ONE way..

    im a fan of buddhism aswell as taoism, zen, stoicism, vinism, my father-ism, ;) etc etc.. (list can go on)
    They are all inspirational and all help me along my way to finding 'my' own path to happiness.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    They are all inspirational and all help me along my way to finding 'my' own path to happiness.
    That's fine, but don't forget that analogy about how it's better to dig one deep well than lots of shallow ones. ;)
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    They are all inspirational and all help me along my way to finding 'my' own path to happiness.
    That's fine, but don't forget that analogy about how it's better to dig one deep well than lots of shallow ones. ;)
    True.. and if i had to choose one which has helped me most and is most like my own thoughts, it would be ''ZEN''

    (not Zen Buddhism)

    Just ZEN ;)

  • SonghillSonghill Veteran
    zenmyste:
    So what's your opinions on these people?
    They are prithagjana (worldly non-aryan people) who have not entered the stream (sotapatti). Until they do, they are in deep samsaric doo-doo.
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    Until they do, they are in deep samsaric doo-doo.
    Thanks for your opinion.
    However i disagree.

    I dont believe just because they are not 'buddhists' then they are in deep samsara..
    Some are yes, but there are a few who are just SO CONTENT that they dont suffer.

    How? i dont know.

    Perhaps they are bodhisattva's
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    They miss out on the fact that all this suffering ...is optional, entirely self created.
    But I've spoke to loads of people who understand that "suffering is optional" but they arnt necessarily buddhist..

    Not everyone 'has' to be buddhists to know 'suffering is optional.

    Even other philosophies and ideas have stated the same things for thousand of years.

    Take "stoicism" for example, according to stoics they say; there are some things in life that are beyond our control, but we can accept whatever happens calmly and dispassionately. Individuals, however, are responsible for their own actions, which they can examine and control through rigorous self-discipline.


    Yes, that is true. But I would say most people don't live like that or even think like that. I was mostly referring to the average person. The average person thinks sickness and death is some kind of tragedy, but it's just inevitable part of life. Something to be expected really, not feared. If a person can accept that, then I would argue that they are following the Buddha's teaching, even if they have never heard the word "buddhism" before.

    :)
  • zenmystezenmyste Veteran
    They miss out on the fact that all this suffering ...is optional, entirely self created.
    But I've spoke to loads of people who understand that "suffering is optional" but they arnt necessarily buddhist..

    Not everyone 'has' to be buddhists to know 'suffering is optional.

    Even other philosophies and ideas have stated the same things for thousand of years.

    Take "stoicism" for example, according to stoics they say; there are some things in life that are beyond our control, but we can accept whatever happens calmly and dispassionately. Individuals, however, are responsible for their own actions, which they can examine and control through rigorous self-discipline.


    Yes, that is true. But I would say most people don't live like that or even think like that. I was mostly referring to the average person. The average person thinks sickness and death is some kind of tragedy, but it's just inevitable part of life. Something to be expected really, not feared. If a person can accept that, then I would argue that they are following the Buddha's teaching, even if they have never heard the word "buddhism" before.

    :)
    Ahhhh, right yes ok, i understand you now..

    youve just cleared up so much about 'buddhism' that i was having trouble with for ages.

    Thanks! :)
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I certainly don't think Buddhism is the only path that is worth taking. So far, it's proving to be the right one for me. But that doesn't mean it's right for everyone. Everyone has their means of dealing with all the things life hands us, and their ways of answering the big questions. I do think whatever happens to us when we die, happens to all of us regardless of what we happen to believe while we are here.

    The first time I really learned anything about any religions other than what I was raised with, was in college. At that time I was 22 years old, and I found many eastern religions interesting, but upon trying to read more about them, I couldn't grasp many of the topics. I wasn't at a place in my life where I wanted to be calm and meditate and study. I loved the frenzied pace of live and slowing down on a moment by moment basis was the last thing I wanted to do. So, I learned a little about it and left it be. Several years later, my life was more settled and I remembered the things I had learned, so I went back to learning more about various religions. I took a couple year side trip into Pagan religions, and while I enjoyed (and still enjoy) parts of them, it wasn't for me. I found I could easily use the things about Paganism that I liked, within Buddhism. Anyhow, just because I find Buddhism to be "for me" doesn't mean I assume everyone else in the world is missing out by not having found it to be "for them."

    I think the world as a whole could use more people who are peaceful and mindful of their words and actions. That doesn't mean Buddhism is the only way to do it.
  • SonghillSonghill Veteran

    zenmyste:
    I dont believe just because they are not 'buddhists' then they are in deep samsara..
    Some are yes, but there are a few who are just SO CONTENT that they dont suffer.
    Your disagreement is really with the Pali canon. I would advise you to buy a copy of Peter Masefield's book, Divine Revelation in Pali Buddhism. In it you will learn the proper distinction between puthujjana and ariyasavaka.

  • GuiGui Veteran
    Ultimately though, it's not what or how much you know. I hear there's an ancient single page text locked away in a mountaintop temple in the farest region of the Himalayas. It is there only for the one who has ready everything ever written about Buddhism. It says, "Now forget everything you've learned".
  • RebeccaSRebeccaS Veteran
    Ultimately though, it's not what or how much you know. I hear there's an ancient single page text locked away in a mountaintop temple in the farest region of the Himalayas. It is there only for the one who has ready everything ever written about Buddhism. It says, "Now forget everything you've learned".
    That is so trippy.
  • GuiGui Veteran
    lol - please define trippy
  • RebeccaSRebeccaS Veteran
    lol - please define trippy
    Like, when you read a koan and your head just turns in on itself and you're all like, whoa...
  • BunksBunks Australia Veteran
    They prefer to live life as it is, continuously wanting to peruse pleasantness and continually wanting to avoid unpleasantness, which is how most people live their life. Not realizing that this whole endeavor is just impossible to do and not even realizing that they are trying to do the impossible, therefore they suffer. Then they die, never realizing that what they have been doing for their whole life, was impossible. They miss out on the fact that all this suffering ...is optional, entirely self created. They miss out on the peace that arises from the release of this continuous, never-ending, wanting and not wanting. That is unfortunate. That is a reason to have compassion for them, the good ones and the evil ones alike. That is a reason to help them whenever you can. That is a reason to never become angry with them. That is a reason to never speak harshly to them. That is a reason to always have a mind of good will towards them. Of course, all of that is easier said than done. But I guess that is why it's called "practice". :)
    Where's that Like button when you want it?! :thumbsup:
    I thought you summed things up pretty well too! My only comment would be on your sentence "That is a reason to have compassion for them, the good ones and the evil ones alike." No-one is good or evil - it is merely our actions. Carry on...

  • KarunaDharmakayaKarunaDharmakaya
    tell them about Amitayus Buddha and the 18th vow.thats easy,
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    "Now forget everything you've learned".
    I've already done that, but it's just a bad memory. :p
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