It's Christmas Time!

Brian

I've been asked about a thousand times in the last few weeks, by friends, family, and acquaintances, the million dollar question:

"Do Buddhists celebrate Christmas?"


I love this question. Most people just assume that we don't. Let me explain my viewpoint, as an american buddhist:

My family celebrates Christmas. Let's look at Christmas for what it really is: It is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. While the actual date may be highly doubtful (in fact, the entire season is probably doubtful - scholars claim that Jesus was probably born in the spring sometime), the point of the celebration is timeless. Jesus Christ was a bodhisattiva of high regard. He did a great many works in the latter part of his lifetime which were of great value to humanity. Therefore, of course we would celebrate his life and his birth.

Now, add to that the cultural aspect of the Christmas holiday. In the west, Christmas is a time to reflect on the past year, reflect on our families and loved ones, and generally bring good cheer to those around us. This fits perfectly within the realm of Buddhism, so it is very logical for us to celebrate the holiday.

So, with all that in mind, I say "Merry Christmas" to you and yours.

Gnome

some scholars believe he was born in the fall not winter. I celebrate evertime i go to church about jesus birth but Christmas is a speacial time. ITs a time not only to elebrate the birth of Jesus but to celebrate Life and Familly also.

Brian

I thought this, one year later, would be an appropriate time to bump this thread

Merry Christmas, everyone!

Camman

Merry Christmas from me as well!

Man, I didnt even know this site has been online for a year!

tycho

Yes sirrie... Merry Christmas everyone! I hope you all enjoy your holiday!

Camman

Brian wrote:

Let's look at Christmas for what it really is: It is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. While the actual date may be highly doubtful (in fact, the entire season is probably doubtful - scholars claim that Jesus was probably born in the spring sometime), the point of the celebration is timeless. Jesus Christ was a bodhisattiva of high regard. He did a great many works in the latter part of his lifetime which were of great value to humanity. Therefore, of course we would celebrate his life and his birth.

Now, not to be the kill-joy here, but, I have a question about this. Wouldn't the 'celebration' of Christmas be a contradiction for a Buddhist? I understand you're saying that celebrating the life of Jesus Christ makes sense, but, we celebrate Christmas by giving gifts, material things, and wouldn't this fall under that whole attachment thing?

Brian

The buddhist path is not as dire as all that. It's the middle path - celebration mixed with somber realization of the ultimate impermenance of all things. Joy mixed with sadness, pain mixed with pleasure, all the various shades and spectrum of life's experiences all taken in with wisdom and tolerance

Justin

If material possessions were out, then we would all be naked, homeless, and hungry. The materialism thing is based on the idea that the human condition tends to never be satisfied. Sure you want something from time to time but when you just get the plastic off of your new copy of Halo 2 only to start wanting GTA: San Andreas, you are at a point where there is no level of satisfaction. I, and most, are EXTREMLY guilty of this. The idea is to be satisfied with what you have, and at a time of giving and receiving like Christmas, to be satisfied with what you get, and what you give. Taking part in traditions of all religeons is, I feel, a responsibility of every balanced life. Experience the miracle of (C)haunnakah, enjoy the togetherness of Kwanzaa, celebrate the night of the winter solstice. There is no reason that you can't take part in the culture of others. In fact, you should. How else can you begin to feel compassion for something you have no understanding of?

Private_Snoball

Gnome wrote:

some scholars believe he was born in the fall not winter. I celebrate evertime i go to church about jesus birth but Christmas is a speacial time. ITs a time not only to elebrate the birth of Jesus but to celebrate Life and Familly also.

Since when do people need a specific date to celebrate Life and Family? Are people so unthankful that they can't say thanks mom/brother/dad whatever for what they have done. I am 16 years old and the last thing I say to my Mom every night is "I love you, and thanks for everything." I don't need Christmas to tell me to do that, and neither should you. People should want to be with their family, and if they can only get off work or school during the Christmas season then that's good that they see their family, but if they go see their family because they have to, well then you are better off not going, you'll be happier, and no one needs someone mopeing around during Christmas.

:birthday: Jesus, whenever the hell you were born

amoz02

one interesting snippet of info. the date that we consider the birthdate was already taken by an older roman religion called the cult of mithra (spelling is wrong most likely). so, the christians in an attempt not to be killed worshipped that day, but somewhere down the line it has become his birth day. so, here's off to the birth date of jesus, the spring.

Jason

Yes, and Dec. 25 is also the time of Nordic Yule, along with the Finnish festival celebrating the solstice. Practically all pagans have a holiday on the solstices. The Christians easily replaced local deities with Christ. A funny note, the Finns have there own pre-Christianized version of Santa called Joulupukki. It literally means "Yule goat." Hhe, their Santa is a goat.

Essentially, the northern European countries were very individualized and pagan. The church had to incorporate their customs to fit with Christianity. The locals didn't really care if a name was changed from whomever to Jesus as long as they were still able to keep most of their rituals and celebrations. Many pagans were used to having a god with more than one name anyway.

The way I see it, much of Christianity, and esp. Catholicism, is just paganism with another face. There sure as hell weren't many yule logs or pine trees in Israel. And the Easter bunny has nothing to do with resurrections, that was pure fertility. The Catholic Church couldn't keep anything original. Jesus was most likely real, but in my opinion, what the Holy Romans did to the faith doesn't resemble the o.g. version at all. Poor Jesus. He died for a good cause and we end up making money off of selling chocolates and Christmas trees. Way to celerate the Saviour!

federica

Well, having carefully studied the few previous posts, this subject has obviously engendred a lot of feeling.... Justin had a point when he said that we should be sharing in the cultures of others, by way of trying to compassionately get to grips with what makes them tick. I have seen repeated threads on how structured religion (Roman Catholicism specifically!) really seems to get peoples' backs up, and yet we all make a point of explaining to newbies that no matter what their provenance, they're welcome, we're such a nice bunch of guys, with compassion, humour, good fun to be with.... "some things have I perceived to glare with double features".... We have to, once and for all - and I really think this is important guys - learn to differentiate between the True Doctrine of the basic Religion itself, and that which is peddled as strict dogma and ethics by the guys wearing the purple robes, big rings and gold chest jewellery.... We all know religions hijacked ancient pagan customs.... we all know current christian festivals are an absolute mish-mash of traditions.... we all know the resurrection of Christ is marked by Eggs and roast lamb.... Cutting through all this fog with diamond vision is what we have to do....
Accept that people will continue doing this, because they a) believe it is the way it's done b) don't realise the origins and combinations of different practises , c) don't realise that there is another way of perceiving it all and d) - they enjoy it! It brings them fun!
WE at least have a structured, intelligent means of discussing this here in the forum. instead of shredding things like this to bits (complete with universal compassion & unconditional love, of course! we have to make a concerted EFFORT to join in their gladness, fun and sense of celebration, but never lose an opportunity - if asked - to offer what we feel.... then 'LET IT GO.' Be centred, and know that it's all transitory anyway...things will evolve and change as needs they must. Be still. Accept. And pass the chocolates. Thank you.

Jason

No, I don't think everything has to be let go of. I think it's alright for people to know what they're believing in and accepting, and I don't feel I'm shredding anything by saying that.

I don't mind if people are Catholic, or anything else for that matter, I simply enjoy explaining certain things about religion or history they might not know. Not everyone is Finnish, for example, and knows about their Yule goat present-giver. Not every Christian knows how the majority of pagans accepted Jesus into their own beliefs (or where killed if they eventually didn't). If more people didn't just believe in things simply because that's what they were told, maybe we'd have more understanding of other cultures. Most of the Christians I know don't know most of this.

People these days don't even seem to know their own history. Greed is a defilement that ruins many things. Christmas presents are nice, but do they help lessen attachments? I doubt it. The consumerism of today's world is a spiritual mess. We're becoming too fast, too busy and too intent on wanting more. For me, compassion makes seeing the world like this hurt deep inside. It makes me see people worried about gifts, about what else they can buy, or eat, or put on their table in the living room to look nice; seeing people unable to stop for just a moment to hear another idea.

If the Buddha just let things evolve on their own without teaching the Dhamma, we probably wouldn't have it today. He wasn't going to at first, he thought it might be best to just keep quiet and let people do as they've always done, but then compassion set in and he decided to teach the few that might listen. Sometimes you have to speak. Sometimes you have to let people know your side of the story and then let them decide what's right for them. I'm just giving them something to ponder. I like Jesus myself, and I wish more people knew what he was really all about.

The bottom line is that I'm not enlightened yet and I still have feelings, opinions and ideas that I believe strongly in. I don't mind sharing those either

Snowpaw

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE!
God bless you all!

uzeb

I really have no interest in Christmas myself, but I celebrate it with family because they do. If I was on my own, I know I wouldn't bother.

After all, no one really knows if Christ ever existed. There's no historical evidence. And even if he did, who knows how creative the writers got when they wrote the gospels decades later, or how much was changed by the corrupt church as the years went on.

It's nice that families get together every once in a while like this to share and experience positive emotions. However, any reason can be used for the same experiences.

Barra

uzeb wrote: »

I really have no interest in Christmas myself, but I celebrate it with family because they do. If I was on my own, I know I wouldn't bother.

After all, no one really knows if Christ ever existed. There's no historical evidence. And even if he did, who knows how creative the writers got when they wrote the gospels decades later, or how much was changed by the corrupt church as the years went on.

It's nice that families get together every once in a while like this to share and experience positive emotions. However, any reason can be used for the same experiences.

and bah, humbug, to you too!!

Vangelis

uzeb wrote: »

I really have no interest in Christmas myself, but I celebrate it with family because they do. If I was on my own, I know I wouldn't bother.

After all, no one really knows if Christ ever existed. There's no historical evidence. And even if he did, who knows how creative the writers got when they wrote the gospels decades later, or how much was changed by the corrupt church as the years went on.

It's nice that families get together every once in a while like this to share and experience positive emotions. However, any reason can be used for the same experiences.

Totally agree uzeb. Just do what I do. When I get a Merry Christmas, I respond with a Merry Buddhamas!

Palzang

Well, I hope everyone on earth has a Merry Christmas, whether they're Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Jain, or whatever. If nothing else, Christmas is a time when we are reminded that compassion and love are important things that we should think about. If we can get away from the crass materialism the season engenders!

Palzang

Snowpaw

Once, on a Christmas Eve a few years ago, I was standing in the kitchen with my Mum and my brother. I then saw this white light outside, through the window and I told my Mum and my brother to look at it. It was a sleigh and some reindeer made out of light! The reindeer were galloping around our house in the sky! It was really cool.

I thought I'd like to share this with everyone. I'll never forget this experience.

Merry Christmas!

( Some people say that Christmas is bad because of the attachment material things but if you look at it from another persepctive the person who gives the present learns to think of others-when the person looks for the right present- and learns to give and be generous. This teaches people that giving happiness will being oneself happiness).

Nirvana

Happiness is a gift we give ourselves. No one else can give us happiness.

I think Buddha taught that life is what you make it, not what's given. In other words, we must work out our own road to Bliss. It's the selections (decisions) we make that compose the stuff of our lives, not the things that fall into our path-ways. If our happiness depends on something outside ourselves over which we have little or no control, we can surely never be happy.

A lot of stuff falls in our path and we must either dodge it, ignore it, work with or help it, pick it up and employ it or stash it as a possession to worry about or sell. There's really so much we can do with this stuff and the problems and opportunities that fall into the path, a lot of which we even plan to be in the orbit of. However, it's what we do with our lives that's most important. Our lives need to have an empty grounding place where we may find a deep security to keep us from the waves of fortune that can undo our lives, our loves, our health, and our very faith and hope.

For me, it's the emptiness of Christmas that's sublimely beautiful. The babe swaddled in the barnyard animals' crib with a cold darkness offset by twinkling lights and a wondrous travelling star. The poverty of Christmas is what pulls at my heart.

Snowpaw

I didn't mean we had to rely on others for happiness. I agree that we ourselves have to work to bliss. But I meant that acts of kindness, compassion and generally helping others will being oneself more happiness than focusing on only helping the Self.

I agree that happiness comes from within and not from without. It's a basic Buddhist teaching. Sorry, about the misunderstanding, I should've typed what I wanted a bit more clearly.

Love-N-Peace

Snowpaw wrote: »

Once, on a Christmas Eve a few years ago, I was standing in the kitchen with my Mum and my brother. I then saw this white light outside, through the window and I told my Mum and my brother to look at it. It was a sleigh and some reindeer made out of light! The reindeer were galloping around our house in the sky! It was really cool.

I thought I'd like to share this with everyone. I'll never forget this experience.

Merry Christmas!

( Some people say that Christmas is bad because of the attachment material things but if you look at it from another persepctive the person who gives the present learns to think of others-when the person looks for the right present- and learns to give and be generous. This teaches people that giving happiness will being oneself happiness).

Are you serious? It's just that I saw something like that when I was a toddler.:D

pegembara

"Gor Thoong"

To the Chinese all over the world, the coming celebration of "Gor Thoong" where we eat "Thong Yuen" is a reunion of family members over a meal. For those living in tropical countries, they may not even be aware that it is actually the ancient celebration of the Winter Solstice.
People observe many celebrations in December. Most are linked in some way to the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere. On that day, the daytime hours are at a minimum in the Northern hemisphere, and night time is at a maximum. (In the southern hemisphere, the summer solstice is celebrated in December, when the night time is at a minimum and the daytime is at a maximum.)
Origins of solstice celebration

The seasons of the year are caused by the 23.5 degree tilt of the earth's axis. The time of the year with the longest daylight hours is the summer solstice, and is typically on JUN-21 in the Northern Hemisphere -- the first day of summer. The lowest elevation of the sun occurs about DEC-21/22 and is the winter solstice, when the night time hours are maximum.
In ancient times, winter was a very difficult time. The growing season had ended and people had to live off stored food. Humans feared as the life-giving sun sank lower in the sky each noon. After the winter solstice, they would have reason to celebrate as they saw the sun rising and strengthening once more. It was a time to be grateful, and although many months of cold weather remained before spring, they took heart that the return of the warm season was inevitable.
The northern Europeans were able to notice a slight elevation of the sun's path within a few days after the solstice -- perhaps by DEC-25. Celebrations were often timed for about the 25th! (Sounds familiar?)
In

ANCIENT EGYPT: The god-man/savior Osiris died and was entombed on DEC-21. "At midnight, the priests emerged from an inner shrine crying 'The Virgin has brought forth! The light is waxing" and showing the image of a baby to the worshipers." (Sounds familiar?)
ANCIENT ROME: Saturnalia began as a feast day for Saturn on DEC-17.

By the third century CE, there were many religions being followed within the Roman Empire. Many, if not most, celebrated the birth of their god-man near the time of the solstice. (sounds familiar?) Emperor Aurelian (270 to 275 CE) blended a number of Pagan solstice celebrations of the nativity of such god-men/saviors as Appolo, Attis, Baal, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Mithra, Osiris, Perseus, and Theseus into a single festival called the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun" on DEC-25. At the time, Mithraism and Christianity were fierce competitors. Christianity eventually won out by becoming the new official religion in the 4th century CE.
CHRISTIANITY: By the beginning of the 4th century CE, a day was chosen to celebrate Jesus' birthday. The church leaders selected DEC-25 because this was already the date recognized throughout the Roman Empire as the birthday of various Pagan gods.
Many symbols and practices associated with Christmas are of Pagan origin: holly, ivy, mistletoe, yule log, the giving of gifts, decorated evergreen tree, magical reindeer, etc. In Massachusetts, Puritans unsuccessfully tried to ban Christmas entirely during the 17th century because of this. The English Parliament actually abolished Christmas in 1647!

For the Chinese the winter solstice is associated with the sticky round starch dumpling cooked in a sweet soup. It is also a time of reunion and hope, of forgiveness and gratitude, I still recall the old folks in my family declaring that Gor Thoong as even more important a family occasion than Chinese New Year.
Let us be grateful for all that we have. As Buddhists we must always ASK and Evaluate. Nothing is to be taken at face value, be it tradition or even the Buddha's teachings. The Buddha insisted that we must even verify His teachings for ourselves and to believe it only when we find it TRUE!

Have a Happy Reunion at Gor Thoong or whatever you wish to label it as!

Love-N-Peace

Interesting:D

FyreShaman

I always love it when Christians tell me what Christmas is all about and how it has degenerated. Many of then are blissfully ignorant of the hijacking of Yule etc.

Giving with love is always good. I do think there is too much greed involved in the commerciality, however, and tend to give to my local dogs home rather than send cards etc.

I heard that one reason for the feasting was to use up food and build up fat for winter when there was less to eat. If you own a freezer, that excuse bites the dust.

Enjoy the seasonal celebrations in whatever way seems most relevant to you.

Love-N-Peace

I enjoy the giving of presents. Everybody gives something and everybody gets something, it's an expensive time of year but it's part of a cycle. Hope everybody had a good Yule Tide
Joe

buddhafoot

I haven't associated Christmas with Christ for ... I honestly don't know how long.

I also don't recall exactly how or where Jesus went to buy new iPods for the apostles (or maybe they just had iMules back then)...

Christmas, in most respects, has very little to do with Jesus - when you look at the activities most people do regarding Christmas.

It is a time that you can enjoy, show and appreciate all of the loved ones in your life.

I just celebrated it with my son, girlfriend and her children. We had a wonderful time - lots of closeness and joy and love and caring - and I never thought of Jesus once the whole time.

So, did I not celebrate at Christmas time?

-bf

Palzang

Heathen!

Pally

buddhafoot

Palzang wrote: »

Heathen!

Pally

I try!

-bf

buddhafoot

BTW, Pally...

I love your new picture. Is this the class you were telling me about where you were learning to clap?

-bf

Jeffrey

Festivus for the rest of us! And a merry dharmamas too...

Palzang

buddhafoot wrote: »

I try!

-bf

Good on ya!

Palzang

Palzang

buddhafoot wrote: »

BTW, Pally...

I love your new picture. Is this the class you were telling me about where you were learning to clap?

-bf

Yes, but as you can see I don't quite have the hang of it.

It was actually taken at Parphing, Nepal, at Guru Rinpoche's cave there. Old pic!

Palzang

Love-N-Peace

On my Buddhist calender it celebrates Christmas, anyway, what's wrong with celebrating the life of Jesus?...

buddhafoot

LoveNPeace wrote: »

On my Buddhist calender it celebrates Christmas, anyway, what's wrong with celebrating the life of Jesus?...

I like that.

Maybe "all" life should be celebrated.

-bf

buddhafoot

Palzang wrote: »

Yes, but as you can see I don't quite have the hang of it.

It was actually taken at Parphing, Nepal, at Guru Rinpoche's cave there. Old pic!

Palzang

Yeah, but at least you have a picture of you taken in Nepal.

I have one that was taken down at L.A. County PD - but I really don't wanna post that here.

-bf

Love-N-Peace

Naww, we've got every second of our life to do that

Brigid

buddhafoot wrote: »

BTW, Pally...

I love your new picture. Is this the class you were telling me about where you were learning to clap?

-bf

Lmao! How I've missed you!

Palzang

buddhafoot wrote: »

Yeah, but at least you have a picture of you taken in Nepal.

I have one that was taken down at L.A. County PD - but I really don't wanna post that here.

-bf

I think I've seen that one down at the Post Office...

Pally

buddhafoot

Brigid wrote: »

Lmao! How I've missed you!

Hi Brigid... it's nice to see you too. You always have the nicest things to say

-bf

buddhafoot

Palzang wrote: »

I think I've seen that one down at the Post Office...

Pally

This is awesome!

I read a funny retort like this that you leave, and I look at your picture and imagine you clapping at how happy you are with yer funny business

I'm still laughing

-bf