Killing Unintentionally

LostLight

I was listening to a Buddhist sermon when I suddenly came up with a random idea; everybody unintentionally kills and it is accepted that any sort of killing creates bad kamma, yet an enlightened individual continues to unintentionally kill, and that does not take away the enlightenment. Therefor, I feel as though unintentional killing doesn't have the effect that most Buddhists think it does. What are your thoughts on this?

JohnG

Maybe it depends on intent as you say; a person must knowingly be held liable for a life taken. But also depend on the stage of development of that life being taken. When I studied "Zen mind, beginners mind" the author relates a time when he was ill, and very weak. It was determined that to save his life, he would have to eat beef; which returned his health, but then returned to vegism. He said to not do so would have ment suicide.

Ficus_religiosa

Unintentional killing is not breaking the first precept. I have a source, but I cannot find it right now.... Will try harder

Sabre

The idea of unintentional killing creating bad karma is found in Jainism, not in Buddhism. It's not creating bad karma, because karma is all about intention. When you accidentally step on an ant, this is not a chosen action. Therefore it does not negatively influence the mind.

OneLifeForm

I was thinking about this the other day.. when helping paint the exterior of the house I live in.
The bottom needed to be touched up and there is grass up against the walls of the house where I had to paint.

I really did not want to do that because where there is grass and the like outdoors, there are many many small beings some of which live right where I needed to paint and crawl on those parts of the walls throughout their entire life cycle.

I'm sure some of them walked on the paint and got stuck and died.

I believe I may have painted over a few ants on accident.

This part I really didn't feel good about.. I accidentally got paint on a rolly polly kind of bug and it was like I had dropped napalm in that area.. it was still walking around but I don't know how it could see. I picked him up and placed him away from the house.

That shows the extent of my ability to help them. I am too awkward and large to help these beings most of the time. If I tried to wash the paint off of it I would have surely killed it.

LostLight

The idea of unintentional killing creating bad karma is found in Jainism, not in Buddhism. It's not creating bad karma, because karma is all about intention. When you accidentally step on an ant, this is not a chosen action. Therefore it does not negatively influence the mind.

Thank you for that clarification. Quite a few people on other threads said that any killing creates bad kamma, so I guess I just assumed that was the accepted norm.

Cloud

"Theravada Buddhists say that a violation of the first precepts involves five factors. First, there is a living being. Second, there is the perception that the being is a living being. Third, there is the volition thought of killing. Fourth, the killing is carried out. Fifth, the being dies."

Those are what I go by at least. If I know it's a living being and intentionally kill it (it dies), that's when the precept is broken.

http://buddhism.about.com/od/theprecepts/a/firstprecept.htm

Ficus_religiosa

"Theravada Buddhists say that a violation of the first precepts involves five factors. First, there is a living being. Second, there is the perception that the being is a living being. Third, there is the volition thought of killing. Fourth, the killing is carried out. Fifth, the being dies."

Those are what I go by at least. If I know it's a living being and intentionally kill it (it dies), that's when the precept is broken.

http://buddhism.about.com/od/theprecepts/a/firstprecept.htm

There it was Not the same source, but same content... Geez I just couldn't find it

Cloud

@Ficus_religiosa, Yeah it's somewhere in the scriptures but that's a little harder to find.

Dakini

Any sort of killing doesn't create bad karma. Only intentional killing does. Karma involves volition.

vinlyn

Any sort of killing doesn't create bad karma. Only intentional killing does. Karma involves volition.

Basically I agree, but what about carelessness that causes death? A worst case example -- the drunk driver -- has no intent to kill, but does.

karasti

to me it's close enough to intent. Negligence isn't quite intent, but it's understood that you realize your choices/actions can result in the harm of yourself or another person, and when you choose anyhow to participate in such behavior, it's >< that close to being intent, to me. The drunk who ran my sister down didn't aim for her, but getting in the car drunk is the same as pointing a weapon at someone and playing Russian Roulette.

Ficus_religiosa

Any sort of killing doesn't create bad karma. Only intentional killing does. Karma involves volition.

Basically I agree, but what about carelessness that causes death? A worst case example -- the drunk driver -- has no intent to kill, but does.

I don't know about a karmic consequence in another life, but the obvious karmic consequence is: Bad consciousness, directing a whole family's anger towards oneself, legal disputes leading to compensation to pay to the family, loss of rights (drivers license etc.), mandatory treatments against alcoholism, fines for breaking traffic rules and maybe even prison...

If one were to kill a human being without any kind of will to do so or carelessness, for all I know, no justice system leads to punishment or allow claims for compensation (except maybe from an insurance). Just like there's no karmic reaction to speak of - other than the bad consciousness, anger from relatives to the diseased etc.

how

We Buddhists often become focused on the laws of Karma, to the exclusion of the other buddhist laws of the universe. More than some worry of who and how a Karmic debt is created or sidestepped is Are we ceasing from evil, doing only good & purifying our minds/ doing good for others?