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Desire/Enlightenment

GavinGavin
edited August 2012 in Buddhism Basics
I'm just beginning on the path and whilst meditating today a thought cropped up. By seeking enlightenment are we not desiring it and surely this then becomes a negative aspect to our lives?

Comments

  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    Buddha said: There are good things to desire and bad things to desire. Desiring to live by the dhamma is not a bad thing to desire :)

    First contact with the dhamma is always frightening. Personally I saw a lot of rational teachings, but somehow they all ended in making my life impossible, through conclusions such as yours.
    Two pieces of advice:
    1) Read the teachings, read about the teachings and ask away
    2) Focus on householder-life. Being an ordained is very different. Try to discriminate what's relevant to you and what's relevant to someone seeking enlightenment in this life (or has been given to a temple when born).

    Read The Householder's Code of Discipline

    A great place to start :)
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited August 2012
    Some say desires can be used positively. I usually consider it to be more trouble to play with than it's worth.

    One Zen meditative approach is to not feed any desire. Practise being present for all that arises. When desire shows up, allow it it's own unfettered birth, life & death without our fiddeling contributions or expectations. How well you do this at anytime is just your manifestation of the 4 Noble Truths.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    @Gavin, It depends on what you think enlightenment is. The Buddha's enlightenment is the elimination of the cause of suffering, which is craving, by replacing ignorance/delusion with wisdom. In effect it's "the craving to end craving" that is desirable. If you're craving to gain something, rather than giving up something (ignorance and craving), this would be a barrier to enlightenment.

  • GavinGavin
    But surely by craving to gain enlightenment this then becomes a barrier to itself?
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited August 2012
    @Gavin, The singular craving to end craving (not to "gain enlightenment") results in the gradual lessening of all other craving (through the practice), and then of itself, until there's nothing left. It's not gaining something, though it does result in peace. You can't just want to have peace, you have to understand that it's giving up craving that results in peace. An incorrect understanding of what enlightenment is would be a barrier. It's just this cessation of suffering through the cessation of craving (as outlined in the Four Noble Truths).

    Enlightenment is not a gain, not something added. It's giving up ignorance, giving up craving, giving up suffering. It's positive in that the result is an unshakable peace (the cycle of suffering, Samsara, is ended), but it's not that you're searching for peace and going to find it somewhere... you're giving up all of the obstructions to peace gradually through the Noble Eightfold Path.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited August 2012
    @Gavin, In other words, it's really "cravings" that we have... multiple things we crave for. If we have this one over-ruling craving to end all craving, and we combine that with the Noble Eightfold Path that is for just that purpose, then our other cravings will be eliminated. The craving to end craving will then have no further purpose, there'll be nothing left to "end", and will disappear of its own accord.

    That make sense? We have to have this one craving to progress. It's not a paradox, but directed effort toward a purpose. The Noble Eightfold Path is our tool and we put our energy and effort into using it. When we're done, when we've reached the Other Shore, we let it go also. It was just a raft to get from suffering to non-suffering. :D
  • Ficus_religiosaFicus_religiosa Veteran
    Like clinging is portrayed by a monkey grasping for an object. To practice Buddhism is to draw one's hand gradually back to the body (not grasping) instead of forth to the object. You still have to want to reverse the movement, of course, to stop grasping.
    Would you say that trying to not grasp any object is trying to grasp the object of nothing?
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    I'm just beginning on the path and whilst meditating today a thought cropped up. By seeking enlightenment are we not desiring it and surely this then becomes a negative aspect to our lives?
    If that were the case then all those noble monks out there are cultivating negativity? I don't think that is the case. :)





  • upekkaupekka Veteran
    in another words, craving to get rid of lust and hate is desirable

    if one craves for above one will be in 'chanda samadhi' (first jhana - absorbsion of the mind- with five qulities like vitakka, vicara etc.)

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