What are the Benefits of Studying Buddhism at an Intellectual Level?

Lotus21

Currently I am studying Buddhism, not just reading as if I am going to take a final exam soon.
Although I enjoy doing it I would like to hear from this community, especially those of us who have done so in the past. What were the actual benefits from such experiences?

taiyaki

Right view plants seeds. So immediately you may not use or recognize the profound liberating nature of the dharma, but deeply planting seeds is important. This goes with merit, morality, etc. All seeds eventually flower be it today or tomorrow.

So now you're attracted towards the intellectual aspect of buddhism, but maybe that will take you further into practice and the path itself. If not, maybe the next life.

thickpaper

I have really studied it deeply at an intellectual level over the years.

Jeepers, I even have a book on Wittgenstein and Buddha (In truth, I couldn't finish that one!).

In terms of less-dukka-more-sukka I really don't think there is much benefit (It took me years to get to this acknowledgement)

As an philosophical/intellectual exercise it's interesting.

Dharma is really pretty simple and I would wager most ten year olds could understand it faster than most professors!

Ultimately, whether taking it from a teacher, getting their yourself or reading your way, you come to the point where you know that:

a) It is indupitable.
b) Much more about the practice than the pondering:)

That's my thoughts!:)

Victorious

Theorethical study might lead to inspiration and later to practical implementation.

Its all good!

/Victor

Sabre

I personally never got a lot out of intellectual study of Buddhism. While it might lead to inspiration as @victorious said, it can also lead to a lot of confusion. The dhamma can only really be understood through experience, not through an intellectual excersize.

Deep, Vaccha, is this phenomenon, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise

But I realize everybody is different, so you have to decide for yourself if your approach is working and giving you what you think a spiritual practice should be able to give you.

With metta,
Sabre

Songhill

Sabre:

The dhamma can only really be understood through experience, not through an intellectual excersize.

Still, one must know that "dharma" or in Pali, "dhamma" has something like six basic meanings depending on the context. They are: 1) Teachings of the Buddha; 2) Moral behavior; 3) The truth; 4) A quality; 5) Ultimate reality; 6) A state or a ‘thing’.

Patr

Everyone has different inclinations, and different levels of understanding.
The Dharma is very vast and has many chapters, starting from the simple to advanced levels of philosophical thought (Abhidarma).

Think its just like going to school, we have to start from the beginning and advance up to a level which somehow comes quite simply. Some will progress up to Phd level and others drop out as they encounter difficulties in absorbing the lessons.
Of course along the way other reasons crop up.

Coming back, we should progress naturally. If you feel comfortable and hunger for more, then proceed. If you feel stumped and have trouble grasping the concepts, then slow down.

Forging ahead will only plant wrong ideas in your head and maybe even put you off Buddhism. Reading and comprehending the written word are not the same as truly understanding the concepts. The essence of the teachings must be grasped.

The buddha often explained according to the students mental faculties, sad these things rarely occur today. Most teachers are only too eager to show off and dive into the deep end. Haizz

Have fun.

Songhill

Patr: You may like what Zen master Tsung-mi said:

“If one just depends on the sayings of the Buddha and does not infer for himself, his realization will be no more than a matter of baseless faith. If one just holds on to direct perception, taking what he perceives for himself to be authoritative without comparing it to the sayings of the Buddha, then how can he know whether it is true or false”

BoatS

taiyaki said:

Right view plants seeds. So immediately you may not use or recognize the profound liberating nature of the dharma, but deeply planting seeds is important. This goes with merit, morality, etc. All seeds eventually flower be it today or tomorrow.

So now you're attracted towards the intellectual aspect of buddhism, but maybe that will take you further into practice and the path itself. If not, maybe the next life.

Right view is often listed as the the most important part of the 8 Fold Path, as it does plant seeds that influence your actions. However, how does one actually "study" right view, or use its implications?

Songhill

BoatS:

I thought I should mention this. There are two right views. One is the right view of puthujjanas (worldly people) that is with cankers, etc., and the other is ariyan right view.

"And what, monks is the right view that is ariyan, cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way? Whatever, monks, is wisdom, the cardinal faculty of wisdom, the power of wisdom, the component of enlightenment that is the investigation into things, the right view that is a component of the Way in one who, by developing the ariyan Way, is of ariyan thought, cankerless thought, conversant with the ariyan Way—this, monks, is a right view that is ariyan cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way” (M.iii.72).

By the way, the Buddha was very much of a spiritual elitist. The Pali canon is prevalent with distinctions made between puthujjanas and ariyans.

Catontheroof

I have taken buddhism from the intellectual point of view from a big chunk of my almost 23 years. I can only tell you, that it can give you some insights about how to live a happier life, but I have realized that the practice is the most important part.

Many people, specially in the West tend to consider Buddhism as merely a philosophy, people think they can guide themselves by the sole words of Buddha. But I believe that when you take things rationally and intellectually only, you wont be able to perceive the true love and compassion, moreover you might fall into some kind of complete nihilism.

taiyaki

BoatS said:

taiyaki said:

Right view plants seeds. So immediately you may not use or recognize the profound liberating nature of the dharma, but deeply planting seeds is important. This goes with merit, morality, etc. All seeds eventually flower be it today or tomorrow.

So now you're attracted towards the intellectual aspect of buddhism, but maybe that will take you further into practice and the path itself. If not, maybe the next life.

Right view is often listed as the the most important part of the 8 Fold Path, as it does plant seeds that influence your actions. However, how does one actually "study" right view, or use its implications?

Study dependent origination. If you study it enough you can see how suffering is a construction. And then one can see how suffering can crumble.

Study nagarjuna and when you're done with that one will realize that all view points are invalid.

But again an intellectual might have a better bridge using meditation as a mode of contemplation and close up analysis.

Either way any interesting in the dharma is good.

jessie70

While very new to Buddhism, and to this site, I have been reading and practicing for some months. Reading inspires and motivates me, I see it as away to refresh one's practice. Plus, I simply enjoy it. But I find research and intellectualizing is best in moderation, and I try and prevent becoming obsessive. I laugh at myself when I am compulsive and clingy about dharma! It could easily become an escape from other important parts in my life. When I feel that way, I put the books down and return to chores, connecting with family and friends or I'll just sit. Sometimes, reading too much about meditation gives me extra thoughts & terms & judgements to contend with and can even cloud what might have been more of a beginner mind. So I am careful about pacing the book learning because even beautiful, helpful thoughts can start to clutter my canvas. I value the cushion & experiential learning most.

Bunks

Catontheroof said:

I have taken buddhism from the intellectual point of view from a big chunk of my almost 23 years. I can only tell you, that it can give you some insights about how to live a happier life, but I have realized that the practice is the most important part.

Many people, specially in the West tend to consider Buddhism as merely a philosophy, people think they can guide themselves by the sole words of Buddha. But I believe that when you take things rationally and intellectually only, you wont be able to perceive the true love and compassion, moreover you might fall into some kind of complete nihilism.

Interesting comments @Catontheroof. I have pretty much just studied at an intellectual level for about a year now and have really just viewed buddhism as a philosophy. I haven't joined a sangha (although I have had a bit to do with the NKT here in Melbourne) yet but feel that maybe I need to in order to further my practice. I just pick bits and pieces from the different traditions and read about them.

I find it difficult to keep mindful of the practice as I don't have any friends, family or colleagues who follow the path.......

how

cwexl said:

While very new to Buddhism, and to this site, I have been reading and practicing for some months. Reading inspires and motivates me, I see it as away to refresh one's practice. Plus, I simply enjoy it. But I find research and intellectualizing is best in moderation, and I try and prevent becoming obsessive. I laugh at myself when I am compulsive and clingy about dharma! It could easily become an escape from other important parts in my life. When I feel that way, I put the books down and return to chores, connecting with family and friends or I'll just sit. Sometimes, reading too much about meditation gives me extra thoughts & terms & judgements to contend with and can even cloud what might have been more of a beginner mind. So I am careful about pacing the book learning because even beautiful, helpful thoughts can start to clutter my canvas. I value the cushion & experiential learning most.

That's a pretty balanced view for someone new to Buddhism.
Thank you.

Tosh

I did a Buddhist foundation course and after I can't help thinking how useful it was to study stuff like the Two Truths from the point of view of four different schools of Buddhism was, and how does it help me in my daily practise?

It can make me look clever (maybe) on interweb Buddhist forums, should I have a mind to start throwing in stuff like the Chittamatrins (Mind Only) view of what's real and what's not in a conventional and ultimate sense, but I'm guessing that those who see deeper would know what I'm up to.

But I do love Buddhist philosophy, I think it's worth the effort.

son_of_dhamma

Right View and Right Intention

Tosh

Okay, how intellectual was the Buddha and his teachings? I'm sure I heard a Buddhist Geek's speaker where the guy (who sounded like he knew his Buddhist history) said something along the lines of that he wasn't that deeply into complex philosophy and was more pragmatic in style. And it's only when people came along later and asked, "What did the Buddha really mean by this?" that it started getting really intellectual.

Thoughts anyone?

Sabre

To the Buddha it was not an intellectual excersize at all. If you look at how his enlightenment is described in various suttas, it clearly was through experience. However, in the West, Buddism is often treated as a philosophy or an intellectual challenge.. I have never been a supporter of this.

A lot of people are very smart and know a lot and feel the need to share this, but don't really know what they are talking about. Other people respond to it intellectually also, resulting in debates of which other people think one of the two must be right, while they are both often wrong. This is not anything personal toward anyone, this is just as I see it; too much emphasis on books and intellect while the depth of possible meditation experienced often gets highly undervaluated.

To me it's also generally a sign of a good teacher if they can explain things with simple words, instead of making the topic wider and more confusing. In fact all there is to know are the 4 noble truths. Knowing those four should be enough to get one enlightened.

Now I don't say it's wrong to think about dhamma at all, but it has limited uses.

This is what the Buddha had to say about it:

Deep, Vaccha, is this phenomenon, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise.

People quote the Kalama sutta often with the idea of "everybody should think for themselves". However, if you really read it, you see thinking is not to be trusted!

"Of course you are uncertain, Kalamas. Of course you are in doubt. When there are reasons for doubt, uncertainty is born. So in this case, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering' — then you should abandon them.

Of course also that is not to be trusted just because the Buddha said it.

Songhill

Sabre:

People quote the Kalama sutta often with the idea of "everybody should think for themselves". However, if you really read it, you see thinking is not to be trusted!

Good point. The problem with 'thinking for ourselves' is we are thinking with the five aggregates and the three poisons: delusion/moha, hatred, and desire. We haven't gotten past them.

Also it is worth noting that the Canki Sutta says: “even although something be thoroughly believed in, it may be empty, void, false; on the other hand, something not thoroughly believed in may be fact, truth, not otherwise” (M. ii. 170).

Sabre

@Songhill, nice quote.

I post here a link so everybody can read: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.095x.than.html

It also says:

"Contemplating is most helpful for exertion, Bharadvaja. If one didn't contemplate, one wouldn't make an exertion. Because one contemplates, one makes an exertion. Therefore, contemplating is most helpful for exertion."

Songhill

Sabre: Nice Sutta. I have been reading it today (again). It has a lot of interesting stuff in it. It is more sublime than the Kalama Sutta which is more suited for beginners.

DairyLama

Okay, how intellectual was the Buddha and his teachings?

Indian thought was very sophisticated at the Buddha's time, though from reading the suttas it seems like the Buddha was quite skilled at short-cutting endless philosophising when it wasn't productive.