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Craving vs biological needs
If I want food, that's not exactly craving in the Buddhist sense. It is just a biological need. Likewise, if I want entertainment (tv, books, whatever), again that is a psychological need rather than craving. Hope people catch my drift. My question is, how do we make a distinction between craving and needs. Because some people may take this too far ...
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The way I see it, craving (tahna, literally 'thirst') is a very subtle but powerful aspect of our psychology that's directly tied to suffering. It's there, latent in the mind, waiting to exert its influence through mental fabrications by directing or at the very least encouraging the mind to feed upon sensory experiences via the five clinging-aggregates in an unhealthy way. When we're hungry, for example, our mind has a tendency to attach itself to the desire for food and create an identity around it, which can then create suffering in a number of ways, e.g., if we don't get what we want; if it doesn't live up to our expectations that we create around the attainment of our goal; if, in our greed, we eat too much and feel sick and lament our physical discomfort; etc. Craving, then, isn't simply our desire to or for X; it's the beginning of a mental chain of events that turns our desires for things into the potential for suffering.
It's insanely early here, so I hope that makes sense. About to head out for a 3-day road trip around Oregon.
To me it is (to some extent) about self-control.
I used to LOVE chocolate. I sometimes described myself as a "chocolatholic". If I had been that, that would have been "craving". But 18 months ago, I discovered that chocolate was beginning to cause me to have heart palpitations. So, once the link was realized, I immediately stopped eating chocolate. I wasn't really craving chocolate, after all. I wasn't a chocolatholic. In reality, I just enjoyed chocolate. And I don't think that Buddhism says not to enjoy life.
I love certain types of music. Last night I sad down and enjoyed a couple of CDs. Enjoyment. Not craving...like the people I know who risked their jobs or their marriages...or ignored their childrens' needs to go to a rock concert.
Craving is driven by mind - you don't eat to live, but live to eat.
Animals are generally driven by the former whereas humans can have both. That is why animals don't go shopping, eat at restaurants or attend concerts.
People tend to live life thinking "I'm number one, it's all about me." That's where the craving comes in.
Food is food, and technically our cells need a certain amount of glucose to live, and so we don't 'need' food, we need energy, but we crave ice cream or cheeseburgers because they taste good and are pleasing to us. They aren't just energy, but something of pleasure, which can cause problems.
And when that's magnified by all the varieties of craving available to us, it can have a huge effect on our minds. Being mindful of our expectations and our cravings is important - one doesn't have to deny everything that one enjoys, but at least understand why. Like @vinlyn said, people sacrifice a lot of things for cravings. I'd bet that they weren't doing them just because they 'liked' them, but maybe they had some psychological need to escape or not feel the pressures of adulthood.
If you want food, you're mistaken, because anatta shows that there is no such thing as desire.
Your refuge should be your mind, not a temple or your house, but your mind. If your house burns to the ground, understand it has burnt and not your mind, do not let your mind burn. The point I am making here is that to stop craving you need to observe it as it happens, over and over. If you cannot see the craving, you cannot stop it. The only way to see the craving is to see the mind, to see the dhamma.
And sorry PrairieGhost I have experienced desire in a whole bunch of ways, and it is one of the 12 links is it not?
8. Craving (Trishna)
The Second Noble Truth teaches that trishna -- thirst, desire or craving -- is the cause of stress or suffering (dukkha).
If we are not mindful, we are perpetually being jerked around by desire for what we want and aversion of what we don't want. In this state we heedlessly create karma, which keeps us entangled in the cycle of rebirth.
Have you ever felt sad when peeling onions?
For example say you see an attractive person, that image will travel through the eye into the brain and into the mind, the mind which is aware of sense objects. It will acknowledge the image and could form desire based around the image as this mind is the basic mind, just average. One must further train the mind so that you no longer are the one who acknowledges but the one who knows in accordance with the truth in Buddhism. When one can train this sort of mind further and further, you only see the image as an image, just a combination of conditions arising and falling, fire, water, wind and earth.
Have I seen it happen lol. I have experienced a few sensory inputs in this way, but I have not yet been able to guard all of the 5 sensory doors in such a way no. But going back to non-self, can you see what I mean by the fact that it refers to the body, this person only being made up of conditions that have come into being forever changing? It has little to do with mind which is what I was pointing to, that is where the craving/desire occurs. You can be attached to the self through the mind of course
If we examine a mirage, water is seen but found not to be there. There is still water in the world, just not here. In the place of water, we find an illusion.
But when self is seen and found not to be there, there is no self elsewhere in the world. So we don't find anything in its place, even illusion.
How do you know you see self/desire when you don't know what self/desire looks like?
There is no mind and certainly no such thing as consciousness. Nor is there a void or mirage to take their place.
Please don't study it using the usual assumption, that when name and form cease, some show called consciousness turns into a blank screen.
There is no mind and certainly no such thing as consciousness. Nor is there a void or mirage to take their place.
hehe nor am I, seriously you took the words on the screen in the wrong way, I get that a lot T___T I was joking around PrairieGhost, I am not one to be competitive or get involved in arguments on this site, if I sense a thread is heading that way I duck out in all honesty.
If there is no consciousness or mind, then what is there? Out of curiosity what have you based your ideas on, self exploration?
Why is it incorrect to ask a question like this when so many great teachings who have come and gone made emphasis on mind or consciousness? Again I am not being argumentative, I am just questioning and discussing as that is what this place is meant for. There was a follower of the Buddha who was learning under him and the Buddha asked him if he believed in a teaching that he was explaining, the guy said that he did not believe it and the Buddha praised him for this as it is not blindly believing, but questionig.
It's not a case of learning, it's a case of daring to accept what one already knows.
As if someone else was here, not seeing, not knowing.
Food for example... If I'm genuinely hungry, I'll probably eat whatever I can find in the fridge. If I'm hungry for a particular food, perhaps I'm just craving. This isn't always so, because sometimes you crave certain things because your body is short of certain nutrients that food provides. But say you just had your dinner an hour ago, and it was healthy and provided everything you need, but now you just want a bag of chips... That's craving. Your body isn't hungry - you just ate
So if you like... Just stop and think about it for a second before you open that bag of chips, and take into account all the facts (like I just ate dinner an hour ago) you can probably figure out the difference.
Same with entertainment. If you think for a second before you turn the TV on why you want to watch it... What is your intention... You'll know if you just need to give yourself a break for a while or if you're just trying to run away from something. If you sit down to watch your favourite show for an hour, cool, but if you're vegging out for six hours in front of the box maybe there is something that needs examining.
Yeah... I reckon if you just think about your motivations and look at the facts you can tell the difference. Hope you find something that works for you
Craving is an interesting thing. At this time of year, I start to crave my mom's lasagna. Today I'm thinking about it often, because it was 28 degrees here this morning, and thinking about eating lasagna makes me feel better about the coming winter. Alas, I will have to wait because we are having it this weekend, lol.
If you stop yourself, you can figure out pretty easily whether you are needing, or craving. It's the being honest with yourself part that is most difficult. Sometimes I'll know I'm craving it and will probably regret eating it, and I make the conscious choice to eat it anyhow. Most often when I have PMS, when I feel I've been possessed by something with an endless stomach for candy and flaming hot cheetos.
This is something I was wording in a different way and will help a lot, everytime a thought arises due to maybe a smell or sight w/e, observe it and give it some time. If people actually stopped for a few moments before they did a lot of the things they did, the world would be a better place I am sure.
I have no idea whether I could do it or not, but it can and does happen. Who knows what any of us are capable of, given certain circumstances...
Although you're body tells you it wants something, that does not make it a necessity. For example addictions. It is a type of conditioned existence. A loop where in your mind created the conditions in your body to physically become a certain way and in return feeds it back to your mind (karma) and appears purely as a biological need.
Also, the five senses can be thought of as being perceived through the all encompassing gateway of the sense of mind (or sixth sense of sorts?).
But distinction is in awareness which is why meditation is so helpful, so you can still the mind and watch the interactions play out (causes and effects).
For one who has left craving behind, complete solitude is peace. If you were to take a Buddha and put him in solitary confinement, he would not go mad because he no longer has craving. If solitude disturbs someone, this alone is evidence that craving is still present.
A clue: you do not 'just kinda know'.
Sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought, imagination. Wanting is just how we tend to label configurations of those phenomena manifesting. If you can notice how this happens for you, there is no wanting and no suffering.
@music this is what I was getting at, people with such a state of mind would find such an opportunity a break from service, they would find a great amount of peace and time to work on themselves spiritually. However, there is a big part of Buddhism that IMO must revolve around compassion and service, so there may come a time where guilt would come into play and they would want to get out only to help people and not purly for the reason to get out for their own good.
All else would not fall under biological needs.
There were a couple of recent cases that wanted the right to die, but this is not necessarily 'begging for death'.
There was a guy who had it who wrote a book though. He wrote an entire book, letter by letter, blinking his eyes.
This guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Dominique_Bauby
(1) wanting something (like a fat juicy steak) that you cannot have; and
(2) not wanting something (like a cheating husband/wife) that cannot just disapppear.
It's not being content with things as they are in the present moment and craving for present reality to be different from what it is. This discontent is what causes suffering. If, on the other hand, you just went ahead and had that fat juicy steak and no discontent arose from that action, where is the suffering? It's a moment-to-moment experience, accepting the present moment for what it is, and letting go of the past and future.
Perhaps there's more to it... I'll get there slowly.....
Thinking 'I want a holiday' and sighing, isn't desire. It's thinking and sighing. Let it be thinking and sighing.