Analogy of Karma

Wisdom23

Karma is quite a confusing topic, still a one which baffles me the best explaination i have heard goes like this.

Karma is like sewing seeds, do a bad deed, speak harsh words or even think a negative thought you sew a bad seed. Do a good deed speak kind words you sew a good seed. One day these seeds will turn into fruit but when this happens no one knows. You will have to harvest your fruit so if you have planted many bad seeds your fruit will be bad. Rebirth comes into this when at death the seeds that have not blossomed and are collected more good fruit equals higher rebirth.

Does this sound like an accurate analogy to you?

Many Thanks

federica

what fruit is it? You could always make jam....:D

This is like the parable of the seed sower....

Let me add something here, FWIW....
Kamma means basically, you don't get away with anything.
And everything counts.
Remember that 'Good' and 'bad' are subjective....and Kamma is volitional, deliberate and pre-meditated action, be it thought word or deed.

charirama

As we say here on Haida Gwaii "Everything Affects Everything Else."

From what I understand, Karma literally means action. All actions have consequences and since we are part of everything else then we will experience the consequences of our own actions both sooner and later.

zenff

An underestimated aspect –maybe– is the immediate effect on our mind.
When we do harm, our mind suffers some damage too as if it takes the recoil of a gunshot. This effect hits us from the closest range possible and hits deep.
That’s why I think it is almost absurd to take the future into account; future lives even.

I can see some logic to it though. Let’s say I steal. That is one small step in lowering the threshold for other people to do the same thing, and if one day someone steals from me, I can see how I contributed to that.
But other things happened too and there will often be a too indirect connection between events to seriously talk about a “law of cause and effect”.

But my point is; when I know I hurt another person; that’s much harder to take than some event in the distant future.
When I took a person’s wallet, knowing how it affected him or her emotionally is more painful than getting my wallet stolen in the next life.

charirama

@zenff
You bring up a very interesting point. The threat of punishment or other form of social retribution is quite often used to keep people "in line" but as we become aware, we become capable of keeping ourselves in line.

Once we understand more about ourselves and how we affect the world around us we stop doing harmful things simply because we know they cause harm and not out of fear of some kind of karmic retribution.

poptart

Karma is a much overused word and seems to have become confused with divine retribution. The stumbling block seems to be a misconception about the connectedness of things. If you believe you are cut off from the universe then your actions can have no repercussions. Like dropping stones in the water. You can see the waves the stones make and you shrug, thinking it doesn't affect you. But then you realise you are in a boat on the water and the waves are rebounding against the shore and coming back to tip over your boat.

jll

i like your analogy very much.
may i borrow it for future use? thanks.

Wisdom23 said:

Karma is quite a confusing topic, still a one which baffles me the best explaination i have heard goes like this.

Karma is like sewing seeds, do a bad deed, speak harsh words or even think a negative thought you sew a bad seed. Do a good deed speak kind words you sew a good seed. One day these seeds will turn into fruit but when this happens no one knows. You will have to harvest your fruit so if you have planted many bad seeds your fruit will be bad. Rebirth comes into this when at death the seeds that have not blossomed and are collected more good fruit equals higher rebirth.

Does this sound like an accurate analogy to you?

Many Thanks

driedleaf

My opinion is that ignorance blinds us from seeing the effects of karma. If we kill an insect, we take it as a harmless action, yet we are still taking a life. If we were to have many rebirths through the different realms, so too shall that insect. As long as we are in samsara we are bound by karma, and karma could one day turn the tides on us. But good thing for us we have been introduced to Buddhism, and we learn about the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. Perhaps one day we can break free from karma if we really put our hearts to it.

kilesa

All sentient beings have karma as their possessions, have karma as their fruits, have karma as their heirs, have karma as their births, have karma as their shadows, have karma as their dwellings

sorry if i mistranslate anything, i took this out one of Ajahn Chah's temple prayers book.
Karma directly translate to "actions" or, "do", "to do", "did" or "does" in my language.

all conditioned things are subjects to karma, meaning the five aggregates are all subjected to karma. it conditions what we see, feels, understands, remembers, likes, dislikes; it conditions our ignorances as to what we define as ourselves.

this life, this thought, this breath

what is it subjected to?

DairyLama

Wisdom23 said:

Does this sound like an accurate analogy to you?

It sounds quite similar to this sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.033.than.html

Jason

Wisdom23 said:

Karma is quite a confusing topic, still a one which baffles me the best explaination i have heard goes like this.

Karma is like sewing seeds, do a bad deed, speak harsh words or even think a negative thought you sew a bad seed. Do a good deed speak kind words you sew a good seed. One day these seeds will turn into fruit but when this happens no one knows. You will have to harvest your fruit so if you have planted many bad seeds your fruit will be bad. Rebirth comes into this when at death the seeds that have not blossomed and are collected more good fruit equals higher rebirth.

Does this sound like an accurate analogy to you?

It's not an entirely inaccurate one, and it's somewhat reminiscent of the analogy used in AN 3.76:

Then Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, bowed down to him and sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "Lord, this word, 'becoming, becoming' — to what extent is there becoming?"

"Ananda, if there were no kamma ripening in the sensuality-property, would sensuality-becoming be discerned?"

"No, lord."

"Thus kamma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture. The consciousness of living beings hindered by ignorance & fettered by craving is established in/tuned to a lower property. Thus there is the production of renewed becoming in the future.

"If there were no kamma ripening in the form-property, would form-becoming be discerned?"

"No, lord."

"Thus kamma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture. The consciousness of living beings hindered by ignorance & fettered by craving is established in/tuned to a middling property. Thus there is the production of renewed becoming in the future.

"If there were no kamma ripening in the formless-property, would formless-becoming be discerned?"

"No, lord."

"Thus kamma is the field, consciousness the seed, and craving the moisture. The consciousness of living beings hindered by ignorance & fettered by craving is established in/tuned to a refined property. Thus there is the production of renewed becoming in the future. This is how there is becoming."

As Thanissaro Bhikkhu explains in his second note to his translation of this particular sutta:

In this analogy, "kamma" apparently means intention and the result of intention, both past and present. This would thus cover the six sense media (SN 35.145), the first four of the aggregates (SN 22.54), and the four nutriments for consciousness (SN 12.64). As the analogy here suggests, these elements of experience create the range of possibilities for a sense of becoming. If your past and present kamma don't contain a particular possibility, a corresponding type of becoming can't be developed. The only becomings you can experience are those from within the range of possibilities provided by your kamma. Consciousness and craving locate a particular opportunity from those possibilities that, through the nourishment of craving, they develop into an actual state of becoming. A similar analogy appears in SN 22.54. For more on this topic, see The Paradox of Becoming, Chapter Two.

On a related note, I recommend checking out this series of talks and and this study guide for anyone interesting in learning more about how the idea of causality is meant to be understood and utilized in the context of Buddhism.