The 5 Sense Doors

ThailandTom

So people of NewBuddhist, how well do you consider yourselves at guarding the 5 sense doors in day to day life. Do you have specific situations where it is easier or harder, do you find it easy to take from meditation into your day? How important do you consider this as part of your practice?

DairyLama

ThailandTom said:

So people of NewBuddhist, how well do you consider yourselves at guarding the 5 sense doors in day to day life. Do you have specific situations where it is easier or harder, do you find it easy to take from meditation into your day? How important do you consider this as part of your practice?

It might be helpful to look at what guarding the sense doors actually involves. I came across this sutta which might be worth a read: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.120.wlsh.html

ThailandTom

PedanticPorpoise said:

ThailandTom said:

So people of NewBuddhist, how well do you consider yourselves at guarding the 5 sense doors in day to day life. Do you have specific situations where it is easier or harder, do you find it easy to take from meditation into your day? How important do you consider this as part of your practice?

It might be helpful to look at what guarding the sense doors actually involves. I came across this sutta which might be worth a read: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.120.wlsh.html

Thank you for the link, it is bookmarked and ready for re-reading and re-readng

DairyLama

What I'm not clear about is the practicalities. Say if I have an addiction to ice cream, do I avoid the ice-cream section in the supermarket?

taiyaki

let it be. nothing else to do but let it be.

Songhill

Student: Everyday I guard the sense doors.

Zen teacher: That's commendable. But if the Buddha should be present, how does he enter and how will you recognize him?

The student was nonplused.

ThailandTom

Guarding them does not mean shutting them off, IMO it means learning from them and being aware. Of course there is also consciousness that is the 6th sense door. But yea @Songhill I do not mean to block stimuli at the 5 sense doors when guarding them, being aware and mindful of what is being thrown at you.

taiyaki

"Whatever we see, it is not I, not me, nor a man, not a woman. In the eye, there is just color. It arises and passes away. So who is seeing the object? There is no seer in the object. Then how is the object seen? On account of certain causes. What are the causes? Eyes are one cause; they must be intact, in good order. Second, object or color must come in front of the eyes, must reflect on the retina of the eyes. Third, there must be light. Fourth, there must be attention, a mental factor. If those four causes are present, then there arises a knowing faculty called eye consciousness. If any one of the causes is missing, there will not be any seeing. If eyes are blind, no seeing. If there is no light, no seeing. If there is no attention, no seeing. But none of the causes can claim, "I am the seer." They're just constantly arising and passing.

As soon as it passes away, we say, "I am seeing." You are not seeing; you are just thinking, "I am seeing." This is called conditioning. Because our mind is conditioned, when we hear the sound, we say, "I am hearing." But there is no hearer waiting in the car to hear the sound. Sound creates a wave, and, when it strikes against the eardrum, ear consciousness is the effect. Sound is not a man, nor a woman; it is just a sound that arises and passes away. But, according to our conditioning, we say, "That woman is singing and I am hearing." But you're not hearing, you are thinking, "I am hearing." Sound is already heard and gone. There is no "I" who heard the sound; it is the world of concept. Buddha discovered this in the physical level, in the mental level: how everything is happening without an actor, without a doer - empty phenomenon go rolling on."

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/search/label/Munindra

oceancaldera207

Access to knowledge via the route of sensory examination is difficult. There are several approaches here, but I prefer the route of purifying, or rather realizing the purity of sensory input. Really, all sensory input is simply pure data. This can be used to realize that all that can be perceived is without inherent impurity. The benefit of such an understanding is that it is very concrete and easy to remember.

Songhill

oceancaldera207:

Access to knowledge via the route of sensory examination is difficult.

It certainly is. Locke (1690), the English philosopher, believed that ideas were something like teacups that came from the environment and entered our mind which was like a cabinet.

Jason

ThailandTom said:

So people of NewBuddhist, how well do you consider yourselves at guarding the 5 sense doors in day to day life. Do you have specific situations where it is easier or harder, do you find it easy to take from meditation into your day? How important do you consider this as part of your practice?

Most of the time, not so well. I often allow myself to be overcome by my desire for sensual pleasures, especially those that arise in conjunction with pleasant sights and tastes. I realized just how much at a recent meditation retreat I attended. It's definitely something I need to work on more.

ThailandTom said:

Guarding them does not mean shutting them off, IMO it means learning from them and being aware. Of course there is also consciousness that is the 6th sense door. But yea @Songhill I do not mean to block stimuli at the 5 sense doors when guarding them, being aware and mindful of what is being thrown at you.

Yes, it's about being mindful, vigilant, and wise in regard to our response to sense data in an effort to prevent the arising of unskillful mental states. For example, from AN 4.37:

"And how does a monk guard the doors to his sense faculties? There is the case where a monk, on seeing a form with the eye, does not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. He practices with restraint. He guards the faculty of the eye. He achieves restraint with regard to the faculty of the eye.

"On hearing a sound with the ear...

"On smelling an aroma with the nose...

"On tasting a flavor with the tongue...

"On feeling a tactile sensation with the body...

"On cognizing an idea with the intellect, he does not grasp at any theme or variations by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the intellect — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. He practices with restraint. He guards the faculty of the intellect. He achieves restraint with regard to the faculty of the intellect. This is how a monk guards the doors to his sense faculties.

oceancaldera207

I should have said, 'access to the *special* knowledges'. ie. prajnaparamita.
There are various approaches to special knowledges.
Basically I think a good rule of thumb when practicing sense examination based approaches is focus on the inherent purity, or clarity or lack of substance of the sense fields rather than attempting to shut anything out. Then shutting out certain things seems like less of a deprivation, and requires less brute effort.

Songhill, interesting , I have never read Locke, but speaking of philosophers I was a big fan of Nietzsche and Schopenhaur in my teen years..(i was a fiery fellow) I have an immense respect for the both of them... but even the awesome terror inspiring sound of Nietzsche's lightning and thunder pale in comparison to the lions roar. It's something that I don't say lightly. I spent many a night doubled over in agony after digesting a few heavy philosophical boulders, knowing that old Friedrich was laughing somewhere.... and perhaps appreciating that I knew how seriously a warriors venture were his words. Like scaling a mountain and all of the hardships along the way, then reaching a rare summit, knowing that this peak inspires fear to lesser men. Not for the faint of heart. This is nietzsche. (btw, I remember once that he said that Buddhism was a thousand times more rational than... well lets just say, 'other religions'..because i dont want to start an argument. anyway, i never forgot this statement.)
And later I found the remnants of sakyamuni; the power and perfection of them was staggering beyond comprehension. Pure from top to bottom, medicine of the highest order...And so honestly friendly. . Just a truly immense being...truly a brilliant light in darkness.