Writing style (sutras)

music

Can someone tell me why the writing style (of sutras and buddhist lit. generally) isn't all that appealing? It is boring, monotonous, and dry. For instance, if one reads the bible, especially Paul, one can easily see sacredness in his words. There is so much beauty in what he says, the way he speaks about love, peace etc. But beauty seems to be lacking in buddhist sutras, it is like going through a car manual. I am baffled because shouldn't spirituality make things beautiful?

vinlyn

While I think you've overstated it, I don't see most of the sutras as being very eloquent...just wise.

how

The sutras are not to make things sound beautiful. A dream can be beautiful.
They are just instructions to the sleeper on how to wake up.

jll

boy, are you missing the point.
exactly why car manuals are boring.
they tell you how to fix the car, not put you in a romantic mood.

music said:

Can someone tell me why the writing style (of sutras and buddhist lit. generally) isn't all that appealing? It is boring, monotonous, and dry. For instance, if one reads the bible, especially Paul, one can easily see sacredness in his words. There is so much beauty in what he says, the way he speaks about love, peace etc. But beauty seems to be lacking in buddhist sutras, it is like going through a car manual. I am baffled because shouldn't spirituality make things beautiful?

PrairieGhost

music, that's an excellent question, and I quite agree.

Mnemonics in the suttas (sutras not so much because they were written in the first place) make them repetitive, but this is a necessary feature of the oral tradition.

More pertinently, we have dry, fussy translations. The King James Bible was translated into English by the some of greatest English writers who ever lived, possibly including Shakespeare, and the translators used a great deal of artistic license to produce a text that fulfilled the original in spirit.

However the translators of the suttas and sutras, even monks, tend to have an academic background, or least work with an eye to satisfying academic standards, as well as political pressure not to be seen to contradict various Buddhist traditions' views, and thus try not to add anything or embelish anything, which seems as if it will be more accurate, but is in fact its own translation bias. You can't translate any piece of creative writing word for word.

In this sense, some of the long disparaged 19th century translations are worth reading, because they are beautifully written in the spirit of Buddhism, if not to the letter.

I imagine the Heart Sutra written in Chinese characters is a very different experience, or the Lion's Roar in Pali... in English, they are full of misused English words e.g. 'mindfulness'; clumsy, cryptic word compounds e.g. 'non-returner', 'not-self', which work in Pali but not in English.

The result is that even in English, only Buddhists understand the texts, and partly because of this, western Buddhism has become rather cliquey and impenetrable.

federica

music said:

Can someone tell me why the writing style (of sutras and buddhist lit. generally) isn't all that appealing? It is boring, monotonous, and dry. For instance, if one reads the bible, especially Paul, one can easily see sacredness in his words. There is so much beauty in what he says, the way he speaks about love, peace etc. But beauty seems to be lacking in buddhist sutras, it is like going through a car manual. I am baffled because shouldn't spirituality make things beautiful?

They were originally transmitted orally, and they therefore had to be repetitive, and easy to memorise, but they also had to hit home, and become second nature. It's a bit like the recitation of your times tables at school, during maths.
But if, for example, you read the Dhammapada, that's quite a beautiful read - and makes sense...

PrairieGhost

Thus have I heard. The Blessed One was once staying at Kusinârâ in the Upavattana, the Sâla grove of the Mallas, between the twin Sâla trees, at the time of his death.

Now the venerable Ânanda went up to the place where the Blessed One was, and bowed down before him, and took his seat respectfully on one side. And when he was so seated, the venerable Ânanda said to the Blessed One:

'Let not the Blessed One die in this little wattel and daub town, in this town in the midst of the jungle, in this branch township. For, Lord, there are other great cities, such as Kampâ, Râgagaha, Sâvatthi, Sâketa, Kosambi, and Benâres. Let the Blessed One die in one of them. There are many wealthy nobles and Brâhmans and heads of houses, believers in the Tathâgata, who will pay due honour to the remains of the Tathâgata.' that this is but a small wattel and daub town, a town in the midst of the jungle, a branch township.

Long ago, Ânanda, there was a king, by name Mahâ-Sudassana, a king of kings, a righteous man who ruled in righteousness, an anointed Kshatriya, Lord of the four quarters of the earth, conqueror, the protector of his people, possessor of the seven royal treasures. This Kusinârâ, Ânanda, was the royal city of king Mahâ-Sudassana, under the name of Kusâvatî, and on the east and on the west it was twelve leagues in length, and on the north and on the south it was seven leagues in breadth.

That royal city Kusâvatî, Ânanda, was mighty, and prosperous, and full of people, crowded with men, and provided with all things for food. just, Ânanda, as the royal city of the gods, Âlakamandâ by name, is mighty, prosperous, and full of people, crowded with the gods, and provided with all kinds of food, so. Ânanda, was the royal city Kusâvatî mighty and prosperous, full of people, crowded with men, and provided with all kinds of food. Both by day and by night, Ânanda, the royal city Kusâvatî resounded with the ten cries; that is to say, the noise of elephants, and the noise of horses, and the noise of chariots; the sounds of the drum, of the tabor, and of the lute; the sound of singing, and the sounds of the cymbal and of the gong; and lastly, with the cry, "Eat, drink, and be merry!"

------------------------

'The royal city Kusâvatî, Ânanda, was surrounded by Seven Ramparts. Of these, one rampart was of gold, and one of silver, and one of beryl, and one of crystal, and one of agate, and one of coral, and one of all kinds of gems!'

'The royal city Kusâvatî, Ânanda, was surrounded by Seven Rows of Palm Trees. One row was of palms of gold, and one of silver, and one of beryl, and one of crystal, and one of agate, and one of coral, and one of all kinds of gems.

'And the Golden Palms had trunks of gold, and leaves and fruits of silver. And the Silver Palms had trunks of silver, and leaves and fruits of gold. And the Palms of Beryl had trunks of beryl, and leaves and fruits of crystal. And the Crystal Palms had trunks of crystal, and leaves and fruits of beryl. And the Agate Palms had trunks of agate, and leaves and fruits of coral. And the Coral Palms had trunks of coral, and leaves and fruits of agate. And the Palms of every kind of Gem had trunks and leaves and fruits of every kind of gem.

'And when those rows of palm trees, Ânanda, were shaken by the wind, there arose a sound sweet, and pleasant, and charming, and intoxicating.

'Just, Ânanda, as the seven kind of instruments yield, when well played upon, to the skilful man, a sound sweet, and pleasant, and charming, and intoxicating-just even so, Ânanda, when those rows of palm trees were shaken by the wind, there arose a sound sweet, and pleasant, and charming, and intoxicating.

And whoever, Ânanda, in the royal city Kusâvatî were at that time gamblers, drunkards, and given to drink, they used to dance round together to the sound of those palms when shaken by the wind.

------------------------

'The Great King of Glory, Ânanda, was the possessor of Seven Precious Things, and was gifted with Four Marvellous Powers.'

'What are those seven?'

'In the first place, Ânanda, when the Great King of Glory, on the Sabbath day, on the day of

'Uposatha, a weekly sacred day; being full-moon day, new-moon day, and the two equidistant intermediate days.

the full moon, had purified himself, and had gone up into the upper story of his palace to keep the sacred day, there then appeared to him the heavenly Treasure of the Wheel, with its nave, its tire, and all its thousand spokes complete.

'When he beheld it the Great King of Glory thought:

'"This saying have I heard, 'When a king of the warrior race, an anointed king, has purified himself on the Sabbath day, on the day of the full moon, and has gone up into the upper story of his palace to keep the sacred day; if there appear to him the heavenly Treasure of the Wheel, with its nave, its tire, and all its thousand spokes complete-that king becomes a king of kings invincible.' May I, then, become a king of kings invincible."

'Then, Ânanda, the Great King of Glory rose from his seat, and reverently uncovering from one shoulder his robe, he held in his left hand a pitcher, and with his right hand he sprinkled water up over the Wheel, as he said:

'"Roll onward, O my Lord, the Wheel! O my Lord, go forth and overcome!"

'Then the wondrous Wheel, Ânanda, rolled onwards towards the region of the East, and after it went the Great King of Glory, and with him his army, horses, and chariots, and elephants, and men. And in whatever place, Ânanda, the Wheel stopped, there the Great King of Glory took up his abode, and with him his army, horses, and chariots, and

elephants, and men.

'Then, Ânanda, all the rival kings in the region of the East came to the Great King of Glory and said:

'"Come, O mighty king! Welcome, O mighty king! All is thine, O mighty king! Do thou, O mighty king, be a Teacher to us!"

'Thus spake the Great King of Glory:

'"Ye shall slay no living thing.

'"Ye shall not take that which has not been given.

'"Ye shall not act wrongly touching the bodily desires.

'"Ye shall speak no lie.

'"Ye shall drink no maddening drink.

'"Ye shall eat as ye have eaten."

'Then, Ânanda, all the rival kings in the region of the East became subject unto the Great King of Glory.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/sbe11/sbe1108.htm

PrairieGhost

In the first place, Ânanda, when the Great King of Glory, on the Sabbath day, on the day of

'Uposatha, a weekly sacred day; being full-moon day, new-moon day, and the two equidistant intermediate days.

the full moon, had purified himself, and had gone up into the upper story of his palace to keep the sacred day, there then appeared to him the heavenly Treasure of the Wheel, with its nave, its tire, and all its thousand spokes complete.

p.s. I have removed the notes from the text so it can stand alone.

PrairieGhost

Whoops: I also missed out, at the start of the Buddhas' speech of the fourth paragraph:

'Say not so, Ânanda! Say not so, Ânanda,
that this is but a small wattel and daub town, a town in the midst of the jungle, a branch township. Long ago...'