Flattery?

minimayhen88

Dearest all,

I am a little confused by the term flattery in the context of Buddhism / its meaning. I know its flattery to say (un-meaning fully) Oh your so wonderful to your friend - to get something you want.

But would it be flattery - when you are with a child, and you know they will normally do the opposite of what you tell them (!!) so you make out that something was their idea .... (when in fact it was your own!) .... and praise them for being so clever and choosing that option .... so that you can guide / get them to do what you want them to do?

Please help?! Would that be flattery in your opinion?

Claudie x x x

poptart

What matters is the intention. Encouraging a youngster isn't flattery.

Trillion

I would call it manipulation.

Jeffrey

Hard to know, since we are not bodhisattvas. I agree with looking at intention.

ThailandTom

Trillion said:

I would call it manipulation.

This is the kind of vibe I got from the way it was worded.

karasti

It would depend on what it is, IMO. Some things you have to get a child to do no matter what it takes, and you cannot simply reason with a 2 year old. There is nothing wrong with trying a different direction if the one you are using isn't working, but if you feel the need to trick the child into do something because they won't do it otherwise, ask how important it truly is that they do it. Is it really important? Or is it only important to you for some random reason and not important when you look at the big picture? Are you trying to force them to eat the same vegetable they have told you 10 times they don't like, just to force them to eat it?

With us, sometimes we have to resort to similar things, but we do it infrequently and only when needed. There are times after too long of a period that our son won't eat his dinner. In his case, he has to eat it, and putting it in the fridge until he's ready to eat is not an option. So sometimes we twist words, or he works himself into a corner during his arguments that we can say "see? Told you you wanted to eat it." or whatever. Like others said, it just depends on your intention, and how the situation truly fits into the big picture versus simply your impatience or your desire for them to do something just because "it's just something we do" or "that's just how we do it!" Sometimes, kids have better ways of doing things, and it's worth listening to what they have to say when they are ardently trying to not do something you want them to do. And sometimes, it really is something important and with a child too young to be logical with, you have to do whatever it takes, and address the real issue later if needed.

Just remember kids aren't just little versions of you that you are supposed to bend to fit your ways. They are here to teach us, as well

karasti

Also, when children are learning and doing well, praising them greatly is something you SHOULD do. Most parents concentrate so much on punishment that they don't take the time to point out what kids are doing right. If you find yourself constantly telling them they are doing something wrong, then it feels like spoiling them to try to point out the good and right things they do. In raising children, this is backwards. Children respond better to praise for what they do right, than to punishment for what they do wrong. Flattery is nothing more than insincere praise with the intention of gaining something for yourself in the process.

For example, your little girl wants to go to school in jeans and a flannel shirt and a baseball cap. But you don't think girls should dress this way, so you flatter her by repeatedly telling her how beautiful and princess-like she looks in a nice dress with her hair brushed nicely, in order to try to accommodate your preference that she dress more girly than she wants to. That, I would consider manipulation. But if you have to say things to convince your child that brushing their teeth every night was their idea, and a great one at that, then that's what you do, because not doing it means rotten teeth and health problems. They do grow out of those phases, and will brush their teeth with no problems eventually, and also, they will dress however they want no matter what you tell them

Dakini

What you describe doesn't sound like flattery, it sounds like lying. Leading the child to believe it thought of what was actually your idea.

But does it matter? Intention is everything. If your intent is to do what's best for the child and is motivated by love for the child, that's what matters.

Hi, mini. So, when are you going to post about this school of Buddhism you're involved in, that micromanages and examines every little thing, in terms of its conformance to the precepts? You were going to do a post on the teachings that are behind this.

Trillion

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

poptart

Trillion said:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So you prefer bad ones?

Wisdom23

mmmm interesting point ! this is a bit of a get out clause but remember that Buddha apparently said not to believe everything he said just because he said it lol try out the teachings if they dont fit with your ideals then just be mindful of it rather than obeying it strictly. Aslong as no one is harmed either physically or mentally i think you will get away with it. I know its a bit of a cheeky post hehehe

karasti

@poptart, it doesn't mean you give up on having good intentions. It means pay better attention to whether your "good intentions" are really good or if you are justifying bad behavior by saying you had good intentions. Sometimes, you really do intend well and it doesn't turn out the way you expected. But much of the time if a so-called good intention has a bad outcome, you could have seen it coming yet used good intentions as an excuse to do it anyhow. Such as people who tell people hurtful things and say "well, it was the truth and my intentions were good." Were they really?

poptart

karasti said:

@poptart, it doesn't mean you give up on having good intentions. It means pay better attention to whether your "good intentions" are really good or if you are justifying bad behavior by saying you had good intentions. Sometimes, you really do intend well and it doesn't turn out the way you expected. But much of the time if a so-called good intention has a bad outcome, you could have seen it coming yet used good intentions as an excuse to do it anyhow. Such as people who tell people hurtful things and say "well, it was the truth and my intentions were good." Were they really?

"Justifying bad behaviour by saying you had good intentions" is not good intention, is it? To have good intentions means to wish the other person well, so I don't see how bad behaviour can come into it. It is true that some people try to control others "for their own good" and that's a matter of personal judgement. Parents have to make those judgements all the time and only they can know whether their intentions are good, but mostly they are.

Trillion

poptart said:

Trillion said:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So you prefer bad ones?

No.