Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Synchronicity
ajani_mgo
Veteran
I think this is a cool topic to discuss... In a Buddhist fashion and also a theological sense...
Well many times in life I have found that actually alot of things around me (and I am sure I am not alone in feeling so) is more than just simply coincidences, no matter how you try to rationally put it, even using some form of fallacy to argue your way through.
Well I think Jung made the first modern study of Synchronicity... (Hey, I think he and me have alot in common! - except our attitudes towards relationships perhaps...) What is commonly cited is the woman who had a dream of a golden scarab... Are they simply just coincidences, "meaningful" by the law of human pattern-finding, or is there really something of a related cause, say... Karma?
Now what I'm going to say is never very much argued for or against by apologists and atheists alike, but is something I thought of some weeks ago after some double-brain cognition...
In the distant past we lived in a Newtonian Universe where everything was Cause and Effect... Thus naturally if anything happened irrationally and couldn't be seen as being a cause of anything, it could perhaps be something of a "God persona"
just introducing this effect, since only he was unbound to the laws of logic he had set himself. In a sense people who call this "planned", since the only way the effect could have come about is through the sudden intercession of God to just "pop" - a new uncaused effect.
Of course, now we live in an Einsteinian Universe. In this world not everything needs a cause. And because of this, it seems to split into two arguments.
First, presenting the atheists' point of view, having stuff that cannot be explained is only NATURE. Random chance events, probalistic causes, Fate being nothing more than microscopic chaos into macroscopic order, and a little bit of psychology... All nothing more than simply chance events. For synchronicity, this is simply another probability that hit the nail, and guess what? It's all only NATURAL.
Second, the apologists may advocate this model as proof - for the existence of a "God persona", even though I have not seen it in use yet; they usually prefer the design argument and the cause-and-effect argument and other less popular but still significant argument. Here God can play the part of the unseen NATURE, which may serve as proof because one may not deny that these chance events at times seem to irrationally meet and come together to cause another cause in themselves, and there is no other way except through an intelligent mind, proven backwards through a functional-type argument.
Of course, God has long been outside the realm of Science because of this Nature/God debate that can never be resolved, but I thought that it'd be nice for some who wish to delve deeper into the complications...
So what is your view, what does this "Synchronicity" mean to you actually?
Well many times in life I have found that actually alot of things around me (and I am sure I am not alone in feeling so) is more than just simply coincidences, no matter how you try to rationally put it, even using some form of fallacy to argue your way through.
Well I think Jung made the first modern study of Synchronicity... (Hey, I think he and me have alot in common! - except our attitudes towards relationships perhaps...) What is commonly cited is the woman who had a dream of a golden scarab... Are they simply just coincidences, "meaningful" by the law of human pattern-finding, or is there really something of a related cause, say... Karma?
Now what I'm going to say is never very much argued for or against by apologists and atheists alike, but is something I thought of some weeks ago after some double-brain cognition...
In the distant past we lived in a Newtonian Universe where everything was Cause and Effect... Thus naturally if anything happened irrationally and couldn't be seen as being a cause of anything, it could perhaps be something of a "God persona"
just introducing this effect, since only he was unbound to the laws of logic he had set himself. In a sense people who call this "planned", since the only way the effect could have come about is through the sudden intercession of God to just "pop" - a new uncaused effect.
Of course, now we live in an Einsteinian Universe. In this world not everything needs a cause. And because of this, it seems to split into two arguments.
First, presenting the atheists' point of view, having stuff that cannot be explained is only NATURE. Random chance events, probalistic causes, Fate being nothing more than microscopic chaos into macroscopic order, and a little bit of psychology... All nothing more than simply chance events. For synchronicity, this is simply another probability that hit the nail, and guess what? It's all only NATURAL.
Second, the apologists may advocate this model as proof - for the existence of a "God persona", even though I have not seen it in use yet; they usually prefer the design argument and the cause-and-effect argument and other less popular but still significant argument. Here God can play the part of the unseen NATURE, which may serve as proof because one may not deny that these chance events at times seem to irrationally meet and come together to cause another cause in themselves, and there is no other way except through an intelligent mind, proven backwards through a functional-type argument.
Of course, God has long been outside the realm of Science because of this Nature/God debate that can never be resolved, but I thought that it'd be nice for some who wish to delve deeper into the complications...
So what is your view, what does this "Synchronicity" mean to you actually?
0
Comments
I have read about this (also my 3rd favorite Police album), and it appears to be more than mere examples of coincidences that may statistical anomalies - it may extend to the perception of the people involved who "sense" it in the synchronous experience. People actually sense a meaning in the connection, which may or may not be observable by third parties.
OK, here's something I've notice on a frequent basis: Every notice how often two people start talking at the same time after a pause, even when they may not be lookng at each other?
It's an odd social phenomena that can occur when people are focused on their own thoughts, and may be formulating their own response without regard for the other person, and yet they can anticipate the moment to jump in just as the other talks. It is mutual and both people start to speak (sometimes followed by laughter).
This is not simply timing, but an actual "synchronizing" of minds between people that I have observed and experienced myself. There may be some kind of subconcious "connection" to the other persons (or even things) that we normally don't perceive during our normal concious states.
If you extend the mind-oriented explanation to its logical conclusion and apply it to all phenomena, then you may also see other forms of this on smaller or larger scales.
Or I may just be crazy <finger flapping lips>
::
From getting books at yard sales that Iwould read YEARS later and have a huge,affect and be appropriate in that particular time.
I began working at a place where my cublicle neighbor had an allatar and was a student of Issan Dorsey and I became friends with him, hearing threads about his teacher and zen practice. I also lived in a neighborhood in the Casrto where Hartford Street Zen Ctr was (Issan's place), and unrelatedly found the quaint house, while pulling my laundry to the coin laundromat. It took a while of me visting and peeping around, and talking to interesting guy there, only to realize that he was the teacher of my cuble friend. Issan ended up having a lasting, however brief influnce on me and my draw to zen.
Other coincidental run in with other zennies there that in hindsight I now see as having been very opportune.
I have lots of synchronicity in my life with family, and get info from dreasm...the same kind of things?
The human mind shies away from the random. It functions as an organiser of such randomness but is a poor indicator of any external or objective reality (whatever that may be).
Our individual perception of "synchronicities" tells us more about our own mental process than about some external causation. By examining how we interpret these we can find out many interesting (and often disturbing) things about the way our mind distances us from the Ding An Sich, the 'suchness' of what is.
It is the second stage of the following:
At first, a tree was only a tree;
then, the tree was more than a tree;
finally, the tree was a tree.
Yet I doubt Jung at times... I originally assumed the randomness of such events to be once in a blue moon. However obviously everyone has the feeling at days that it just keeps happening to them, and it's more than Murphy's Law and beyond rational thought at times... Which I at times believe, is a way of this so-called "mental energy" that forms the basis of my theories on prayer, faith and stuff, or I might just as be as crazy as Magwang. :crazy:
Any woman can tell you about this phenomenon. I have an extreme example from my own experience.
When I was in my second year of university I lived with two other girls and two guys. At the start of the year in September all three of us girls were on the same contraceptive pill but we took it at different times and thus had our periods at different times. By Christmas, we were all on the exact same schedule. This happened partly because one or another of us would forget to to take our pill or our schedules would otherwise get screwed up but how we all ended on exactly the same schedule is still largely a mystery to us.
This may subconcious as well, possibly for reproductive reasons.
Think about it: from a perspective of biological imperative, it may be more advantageous for the group. If a suitable male is available, then the likelihood of survival increases. (I read Desmond Morris' The Naked Ape and it really changed my view of homo sapiens)
But back to synchronicity: the automatic nature of this - it must come from mind, somewhere deep.
::::
With one breath, with one flow
You will know
Synchronicity
A sleep trance, a dream dance
A shaped romance
Synchronicity
A connecting principle
Linked to the invisible
Almost imperceptible
Something inexpressible
Science insusceptible
Logic so inflexible
Causally connectable
Yet nothing is invincible
If we share this nightmare
Then we can dream
Spiritus mundi
If you act as you think
The missing link
Synchronicity
We know you, they know me
Extrasensory
Synchronicity
A star fall, a phone call
It joins all
Synchronicity
It's so deep, it's so wide
You're inside
Synchronicity
Effect without cause
Sub-atomic laws, scientific pause
Synchronicity
::
Yes, we thought it would have to do with reproduction in some way or form. It's interesting how "nature" reacted to our fooling with her.
http://www.google.com/musicl?lid=IiZyq5VYRCI&aid=7egfiU55YZP
Yes, it is interesting, isn't it? Our attachment to rebirth is so strong that after we program our "selves" so successfully, we can't help but comply.
See "Sex".
And duh...right...I knew it was The Police song. (cough) Sorry. My mind is melting...I'll give it a good shake.
Is an acausal connecting principle compatible with a samsara where everything is conditioned? Can two events be connected without being the cause of one another? Are not all things related and therefore conditioned with each other?
What did Buddha say about interconnectedness? (Elohim, where are you!)
I think the real question may be: Don't we see examples of synchronicity all around us? Attached are screenshots of my normal workday.
::
::
Synchronicity II, also by Sting. Used without permission.
Another suburban morning
Grandmother screaming at the wall
We have to shout above the din of our Rice Crispies
We can't hear anything at all
Mother chants her litany of boredom and frustrations
But we know all her suicides are fake
Daddy only stares into the distance
There's only so much more that he can take
Many miles away something crawls from the slime at the
Bottom of a dark Scottish lake
Another industrial ugly morning
The factory belches filth into the sky
He walks unhindered through the picket lines today
He doesn't think to wonder why
The secretaries pout and preen like cheap tarts on a red light street
But all he ever thinks to do is watch
And every single meeting with his so-called superior
Is a humiliating kick in the crotch
Many miles away something crawls to the surface of a dark Scottish lake
Another working day has ended
Only the rush hour hell to face
Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes
Contestants in a suicidal race
Daddy grips the wheel and stares alone into the distance
He knows that something somewhere has to break
He sees the family home now looming in the headlights
The pain upstairs that makes his eyeballs ache
Many miles away there's a shadow on the door of a cottage on the
Shore of a dark Scottish lake
For Brigid, I think I heard someone use entrainment to explain that once too.
I seem to like entrainment... The whole idea sounds cool...
Anyway me and Argon once joked about String Theory... Who knows? The day we manage to "hear" the tune of the Universe, it might be chaotic punk rock! :rockon: