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Already Broken....Already Dead

Recently, I came across a very clear explanation of impermenance. This is sort of what it said online;

When I go to drink out of a glass, I realize that the glass is already broken. I can then truly cherish it. It holds my drink admirably and when it finally falls and breaks, I realize that the glass was already broken.

I believe that the same can be applied toward life, mine, yours, everyone's. I realize that life is already fleeting and that I am in a sense already dead. When I see this, I understand that life is too short and frail to pass by with a 'do it tomorrow' attitude. This moment is the most important and it should be cherished.

I tried explaining this to my sister but she said it was too pessimistic. Anyone else share such a similar view.

Comments

  • edited July 2006
    Luckily views too are impermanant. Mind you, you did remind me of a story that I am rather fond of. It's about Zen Master Ikkyu, who went on to become one of the major nutjob teachers in Zen and a great guy all round:

    Ikkyu, the Zen master, was very clever even as a boy. His teacher had a precious teacup, a rare antique. Ikkyu happened to break this cup and was greatly perplexed. Hearing the footsteps of his teacher, he held the pieces of the cup behind him. When the master appeared, Ikkyu asked: "Why do people have to die?"

    "This is natural," explained the older man. "Everything has to die and has just so long to live."

    Ikkyu, producing the shattered cup, added: "It was time for your cup to die."
  • edited July 2006
    i swear "Knight of buddha" .. you are wise beyond your years old.
    i read your thoughts and im greatly inspired.
    hats off to you man!

    and im sure you wont go ego tripping on what i type here either.
    i just want to let you no i honour your wisdom..
    you shine .. i hope you hang with significant others who feed you
    and open the door for you to fly through every now and then.

    i cant say enough!!


    in response to what you wrote.. i get it.. but
    just explain ( im slow tehe ) .. how the glass is broken before it breaks.?
  • edited July 2006
    is it "time is irrelivant" sort of speak??

    I THINK i hear ya??!!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited July 2006
    Colleen....Everything is impermanent and transitory....The pyramids in Egypt are as signifcant, in their life-span, as a day-long mayfly....
    The first hello is the sound of the last goodbye.... whether for an hour or an eon, everything has a start, and a finish.
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited July 2006
    I have found this contemplation of death to also help diffuse anger and trivial concerns. It is hard to hold too much enmity towards another when you know that their demise is imminent. In fact, upon this realization, it is much easier to hold that individual in compassionate regard. Also, one cannot make too much of their own worldly station, as one day their place in the world will be food for worms. This realization shatters this illusion and allows one to live their life towards more beneficial pursuits.

    This can be taken as a downer, but that particular downer is for the benefit of all when realized in the context of the dharma.
    Death is one of the five daily recollections which the Buddha recommended: 1) I am subject to sickness. I have not gone beyond sickness. 2) I am subject to disease or decay. I have not gone beyond decay. 3) I am subject to death. I have not gone beyond death. 4) Everything dear and delightful to me will change and vanish. And 5) I am heir to my kamma [or karma], kamma is the womb from which I sprang. Whatever I do by body, speech or mind, I will be the heir of these actions.
    http://www.hundredmountain.com/Pages/dharmatalk_pages/dharma_ondeath2.html

    _/\_
    metta
  • edited July 2006


    Colleen....Everything is impermanent and transitory

    yes i realize that fed..

    just i guess i seen everything as.. begining middle and end ..
    when really its all happening at the same time..

    : )
  • edited July 2006
    colleen wrote:


    Colleen....Everything is impermanent and transitory

    yes i realize that fed..

    just i guess i seen everything as.. begining middle and end ..
    when really its all happening at the same time..

    : )

    Could you further elaborate on the
    really it's all happening at the same time.

    I guess I've just always viewed it more along the lines of inevitable.
  • edited July 2006
    hey im not really sure what i mean..lol

    perhaps "transitory" is the word to use like fed said.
    ??
  • edited July 2006
    It is happening at the same time and cause and effect are not linear. Time is a construct, not an absolute reality.
  • edited July 2006
    Some call me enlightened here. My teachers say I'm quiet. My friends call me crazy and persuasive. My parents call me a rebel. My sister calls me the anti-christ. I know many names.

    When I say that the glass is already broken or that I am already dead, I mean that the arising of an object or person ultimately seals it's fate. For now it is subject to cessation. I believe that when we truly realize the impermanence of a thing or person, it becomes much easier to cherish it in this very moment.
  • edited July 2006
    gottcha knight of buddha!!

    and thanks again to ZM for helpin me on the path.

    : )
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Loved that tea cup story, Genryu. Still laughing...

    My father and mother were bickering and bickering the other day until I couldn't take it anymore. I told my father that my mother could die in the next fifteen minutes and asked him if this was the way he'd like to spend the last fifteen minutes of her life with her. He tried to find something sarcastic to say but it was half hearted. They're old, in their mid-70s, yet they never contemplate the imminence of death. It's not a downer. It's a reality check. Luckily for them I'm here to remind them. lol!!

    When I go into the kitchen and it's a mess because no one bothered to clean up after themselves I used to get angry. Now I think that if my mother were to die in her sleep tonight, that dirty spoon she left on the counter would become precious to me and I wouldn't want to move it, for a while. Or those dishes my father didn't bother to put in the sink. Know what I mean? It helps me override my silly self and cherish them like I should be doing. I have no idea how much time together we have left. I don't want to waste a single second. I think that's one of the reasons life is so peaceful now. They're reading Thich Nhat Hanh, too. lol! But that wasn't my idea! I'd never try to convert or confuse them.
  • edited July 2006
    awesome outlook brigid!
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Thanks, Colleen. It works well. It's like a soft slap in the face that we all need from time to time. I got so sick of being angry and so sick of myself for being angry that I just had to find a way through it. I'm always looking for techniques to work through anger. So far it usually ends up being some form of gratitude. I think when I'm angry I must be taking something for granted or my expectations are not realistic. And those punchy little reminders of impermanence work wonders.
  • MichelleMichelle Explorer
    edited July 2006
    You have a great way of looking at life,Brigid. I could learn a lot from you. I am a total neat feak- it would serve me well to remember what you wrote about the 'spoon on the counter'.

    Thank you for your post , you have given me a new perspective.

    Namaste,
    Michelle
  • edited July 2006
    Brigid, getting angry is very human. Anger is also passion and transmutes sometimes into determination.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Some call me enlightened here. My teachers say I'm quiet. My friends call me crazy and persuasive. My parents call me a rebel. My sister calls me the anti-christ. I know many names.

    When I say that the glass is already broken or that I am already dead, I mean that the arising of an object or person ultimately seals it's fate. For now it is subject to cessation. I believe that when we truly realize the impermanence of a thing or person, it becomes much easier to cherish it in this very moment.


    I bow to your wisdom, Good Sir Knight. Your insight belies your years. I truly pray you are able to use the precious opportunity of this life to achieve your ultimate purpose for the benefit of us all.

    Palzang
  • edited July 2006
    mmm not sure if im completely correct with the story but as i remember it here goes

    a mother lost her child.. and was so grieved that she went to the buddha asking how she could bring him back.. the buddha said for her to go around her village and find a house where nobody had died, she went all aroud the village and found that someone had died in each house.. when she went back to the buddha she finally understood
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Our local cemetary is a wonderful place for a quiet time, especially as it begins to contain more friends and relations. All in one place at the same time - just like a great party. And no one answers back or says that they've heard your stories before.

    Seriously, tho', meditation on death in a boneyard has brought me much fruit.
  • edited July 2006
    i can imagine to 'average european joes' or christians that sounds mighty weirdy.. but to me i totally see where you are coming from however i don't think ill be spending time in the local graveyard meditating..
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited July 2006
    That's the mustard seed story, Celebrin. The Buddha told the lady to bring back a mustard seed from the house of a family where no one had died, and he would restore her child to life. Of course, she couldn't find such a house, so she learned that this is the nature of samsara.

    Palzang
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Yes, don't we all carry around our own respective corpses? Who has not lost something that they thought would last forever?

    _/\_
    metta
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Celebrin wrote:
    i can imagine to 'average european joes' or christians that sounds mighty weirdy.. but to me i totally see where you are coming from however i don't think ill be spending time in the local graveyard meditating..

    Try it, dear heart, you might be surprised!
  • edited July 2006
    I'd second that advice.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited July 2006
    I remember reading in a book on death, that we celebrate our birthdays every year, but unthinkingly, we also unconsciously negotiate our 'Deathday' too....one out of these 365 will mark our passing....
    We'll be dead an awful lot longer than we are alive....I hope to mark my gravestone - if indeed, I decide to have one at all, with the simple words:-

    "To be continued..."
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Not dead so long, Fed. According to the Bardo Thodrol (Tibetan Book of the Dead), only for 49 days. Then you pop out again somewhere, maybe as a bug or a hell being or a hungry ghost or a god, or even another human rebirth, but somewhere!

    Palzang
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Palzang, I've been trying to find some concise information about what to do with the body after it's dead. I'm studying the dying process so I don't need help with that part (well, I do actually but there's not nearly enough space here for that. lol!) but if we may be hanging around our bodies for up to 49 days after death, what arrangements should we make? Can we cremate the body within the 49 days or would that be dangerous? I've read that it's best not the disturb the body after death but for how long?
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Hi Brigid,

    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that we hang around our bodies for 49 days. The consciousness leaves the body at death and enters the bardo of the intermediate state where it eventually locates its next rebirth. Traditionally, according to the Bardo Thodrol, the passage through the bardo to the next rebirth takes 49 days, tho I wouldn't take that as written in stone. As with all things in Tibetan Buddhism, numbers are laden with symbolism, so it may not literally be 49 days. However, to answer your question, there are certain guidelines that I have been taught for when someone does die. Of course, some of these are contingent to the circumstances where the death occurs, so you do the best you can then.

    First of all, when the person is dying, you don't want to touch them anywhere on the body except for the crown of the head. The idea is to attract their consciousness to the crown of the head as that is the most auspicious place on the body for the consciousness to depart. When one is taught Phowa, the practice for transfering the consciousness at the moment of death, you practice visualizing the consciousness leaving the crown chakra and going directly into Amitabha's heart. Thus one can be born directly into Amitabha's Pure Land. This is the most auspicious rebirth.

    Once the person is pronounced dead, it is best not to touch the body at all for up to a day afterwards. One also should avoid a lot of emotional display in the vicinity of the body, such as loud grieving, people hugging the body, etc. This will tend to confuse the consciousness and make it difficult for it to separate from the body. The more peaceful and quiet the death, the better. After a day or so, it's OK to move the body and prepare it for whatever sort of burial or cremation you're planning. Cremation is usually considered best (or sky burial, but that's usually looked down upon in the West!). Normally what is done in Tibet is that the astrologer is consulted for the most auspicious day to perform the cremation. That, of course, is up to you.

    Another thing that they do in Tibet that you may find it helpful to do is to read the Bardo Thodrol to the dead person. The book is divided up into 49 days, so you read the appropriate day to the person. I don't mean you have to be in the presence of the body. You just address the person as if they were there. The purpose is to help guide the person through the bardo. It is also a good practice, if the person is amenable, to read it to the person before they die. This is something that they do in an AIDS hospice in California run by Ram Dass, and the patients generally find it extremely comforting, but again, it depends on the person and whether they would be open to it.

    That's about it in a brief nutshell (as opposed to a long nutshell). Did I leave anything out?

    Palzang
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited July 2006
    WOW!

    I've been searching for clear, concise information like this for months, clearly in the wrong places. This is exactly what I wanted to know. It's perfect and it's also a relief to know what to have done when I die and when my parents die.

    I got the "body hanging around for 49 days" thing from misreading something else, not from what you said, so no worries.

    Thank you a million times, Palzang. I really, really appreciate this.
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Brigid,

    For you (and others like you who wish to learn more about this), you should check our website, www.tara.org, periodically to watch for Phowa teachings from Jetsunma. She holds Phowa retreats every so often and teaches you the whole package. She hasn't done one for a while, so maybe that'll happen before long. Of course, if you make wishing prayers for her to teach Phowa, that will certainly help! Lamas do respond when so beseeched. And in her case, you'll be getting it straight from the source as she achieved the realization of deathlessness with Padmasambhava himself in Marathika Cave in Nepal in a former existence. There is no one on this planet at this time who can do it better. Certainly it will be an experience that will rearrange your molecules, to put it mildly. Certainly it did mine!

    Palzang
  • BrigidBrigid Veteran
    edited July 2006
    Okay. I already have your website saved in my Bookmarks so I'll check it out often. I would so love to learn it, especially from her! That would blow my mind so completely.

    Thanks again!
  • edited July 2006
    Palzang,

    I've also saved the web site. Thank you.

    I have read The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying I read it while my grandmother was dying and it was very helpful. The last 5 days of her life was just what the book said it would be. But after she died I was going to follow the instructions to help her pass thro the bardo but the book said that if they are not Buddhist ( she was Christian) to not do so because I could upset her and cause problems for her while she was in the bardo....well that's how I understood it. Did I understand it correctly?

    Deb
  • edited July 2006
    Palzang wrote:
    Hi Brigid,

    Traditionally, according to the Bardo Thodrol, the passage through the bardo to the next rebirth takes 49 days, tho I wouldn't take that as written in stone.
    That might be a play on 7 times 7.
    Palzang wrote:
    First of all, when the person is dying, you don't want to touch them anywhere on the body except for the crown of the head. The idea is to attract their consciousness to the crown of the head as that is the most auspicious place on the body for the consciousness to depart. When one is taught Phowa, the practice for transfering the consciousness at the moment of death, you practice visualizing the consciousness leaving the crown chakra and going directly into Amitabha's heart. Thus one can be born directly into Amitabha's Pure Land. This is the most auspicious rebirth.Palzang


    It's interesting that you say that. In Tich Naht Hahn's teaching he has said that rubbing a persons feet is good practice for the dying, especially when the person is suffering, because the dying often lose sensations in their extremities and that stimulating touch can bring them back to the present moment beyond their pain.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited July 2006
    The Tibetan Book of the Dead
    Narrated by Leonard Cohen

    An extraordinary DVD - and well worth watching.

    Amazon US

    or

    Amazon UK
  • PalzangPalzang Veteran
    edited July 2006
    I have that video, Simon. It is indeed excellent. That's where I learned about Ram Dass and the hospice where they read the book to the dying.

    As for Thich Nhat Hanh, I'm just telling you what I was taught. Obviously there are different schools of thought on the matter, so best to follow the one that you prefer. I also think massaging the feet during the process of dying might be good, but don't do it when the person is actively going through the dying process or after death. That's definitely the wrong end of the body to focus on!

    Deb, I've never heard that, so I don't know. I read it for my mother, but whether it did any good or not, who knows? Everyone experiences the bardo through their own cultural filters. Some people see angels and devils, Buddhists see bodhisattvas and protectors, so everybody passes through the bardo, but the experience is different. Most people actually pass out once they realize they're dead and don't experience most of the bardo consciously anyway. If you're wondering how they can experience anything when they're dead, well, I'll leave you to ponder that one!

    Palzang
  • edited July 2006
    "bow" Thank you Palzang


    Blessings in your practice,

    Deb
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