Henry Steele Olcott, an American Buddhist Patriarch

XingPing

Check out this Sri Lankan site, including the link bar over this particular page:



http://aryasangha.org/olcott-prothero.htm

((as of 28 Jul 06, this site was down. There is an article about Olcott here:


http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2002/02/17/fea09.html ))


And after you've informed yourselves of the facts about this, please inform me why it is considered politically correct to deny the existence of American Buddhism.

Simonthepilgrim

I have long felt that both his and HPB's contributions to the spread of the Dharma into the West (to say nothing of his work in Sri Lanka) have been discounted because of their more off-the-wall ideas that ran alongside.

Thank you for reminding us of this strange and wonderful man, Horaku - and what a beard!!!!

XingPing

Simonthepilgrim wrote:

I have long felt that both his and HPB's contributions to the spread of the Dharma into the West (to say nothing of his work in Sri Lanka) have been discounted because of their more off-the-wall ideas that ran alongside.

Thank you for reminding us of this strange and wonderful man, Horaku - and what a beard!!!!

He and Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky were both geniuses, and they were ahead of their time.

I've created a new head collage on my group that includes these two notables, along with the other American geniuses that were carved out of Mt. Rushmore.

Simonthepilgrim

horaku wrote:

He and Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky were both geniuses, and they were ahead of their time.

I've created a new head collage on my group that includes these two notables, along with the other American geniuses that were carved out of Mt. Rushmore.

I'm not sure that the mythic desecration of the sacred Black Hills is a terribly good place to celebrate genius, H.

buddhafoot

I think that's quite enough of that US slander, Simon.

We took this country from savages because they didnt' know proper etiquette. We taught them horrible practices like skinning and scalping - and then blamed it on them.

We gave them back desolate and shitty land to live on - unless we found something of value on it - then we took that and gave them something even shittier.

But we gave them some place to live.

You damn US-basher, you!

-bf

Simonthepilgrim

buddhafoot wrote:

I think that's quite enough of that US slander, Simon.

We took this country from savages because they didnt' know proper etiquette. We taught them horrible practices like skinning and scalping - and then blamed it on them.

We gave them back desolate and shitty land to live on - unless we found something of value on it - then we took that and gave them something even shittier.

But we gave them some place to live.

You damn US-basher, you!

-bf

Moi?

federica

Miss Piggy has joined the fray.....?

I have visions of our Wise and grizzly-bearded resident British Guru tossing blonde curls over his shoulders.....


And may I ask whom, by the way, on this forum, has denied the existence (or even validity) of American Buddhism?

XingPing

Simonthepilgrim wrote:

I'm not sure that the mythic desecration of the sacred Black Hills is a terribly good place to celebrate genius, H.

That was a rant.

federica

I disagree, H. Too brief. Call it a Runt.

XingPing

federica wrote:

Miss Piggy has joined the fray.....?

I have visions of our Wise and grizzly-bearded resident British Guru tossing blonde curls over his shoulders.....

Probably Thomas Jefferson got you started, I guess.

Handsome critter, ain't he?

BTW, I did a much better photo editing job last night.

federica wrote:

And may I ask whom, by the way, on this forum, has denied the existence (or even validity) of American Buddhism?

Obviously, sugar plum pie,you can ask that.

XingPing

federica wrote:

I disagree, H. Too brief. Call it a Runt.

I always say what you want. You know that, sweetie.

federica

Yeh, so can anyone really.... But if you're going to make the statement, maybe you'd care to back it up....
It's a bit like "nobody likes me, everybody hates me".... dramatic and to the point, but hardly accurate.....?

Just like to know where you got the impression from....Now, on another forum which shall remain nameless, I could see your point....... but has this happened here?

XingPing

buddhafoot wrote:

I think that's quite enough of that US slander, Simon.

We took this country from savages because they didnt' know proper etiquette. We taught them horrible practices like skinning and scalping - and then blamed it on them.

We gave them back desolate and shitty land to live on - unless we found something of value on it - then we took that and gave them something even shittier.

But we gave them some place to live.

You damn US-basher, you!

-bf

Hey fede-poo, is this a rant yet?

Simonthepilgrim

That was no rant. A rant goes on and on and on. I simply find the carvings on the Black Hills as offensive as, for example, using the original Declaration of Independence as a dishrag or carving a crucifix on the Bodhi Tree.

federica

horaku wrote:

Hey fede-poo, is this a rant yet?

......'fede-poo"......? ROTFLMAO!!



No. This is known as classic BF:bs: Tongue-in-cheek.... You know he's being funny, because he opens his mouth. I'm used to it, love it really.....



Fede-poo.....

Brigid

I am sooooo with you, Simon. Imagine the gall...

inthedharma

I have been to the black hills......I agree with Simon.....and the dripping sarcasm of BF I thought was wonderful..........I totally agree with both.

XingPing

Simonthepilgrim wrote:

That was no rant. A rant goes on and on and on. I simply find the carvings on the Black Hills as offensive as, for example, using the original Declaration of Independence as a dishrag or carving a crucifix on the Bodhi Tree.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion. But you see, differences of opinion are what makes an itty-bitty board go round. That's why Fede-poo loves me so much. And the feeling is mutual, really. She's SUCH a dear, don't you know?

I have Native American blood, and like most Natives, I'm a proud American. Personally,I think that Mt. Rushmore is more sacred since it got carved, by yet another geniius American patriot, into the effigies of some of the most sterling role models of righteousness and right effort in recorded history.

Simonthepilgrim

horaku wrote:

........................ the effigies of some of the most sterling role models of righteousness and right effort in recorded history.

XingPing

Brigid wrote:

I am sooooo with you, Simon. Imagine the gall...

Welcome to my thread, sweetie-pie. How's life in the sticks?

You know, my mother was out of the clan O'Mealey. That's probably what makes you so beautiful to me (tongue firmly planted in cheek, if you care to check it).

You know what else? EVERYTHING looks like gall from outside the mainstream. Absolutely everything.

XingPing

Simonthepilgrim wrote:

Moi?

Toi, avec les buffooneries gauches ne plus incredibles qu'etat.

XingPing

federica wrote:

......'fede-poo"......? ROTFLMAO!!



No. This is known as classic BF:bs: Tongue-in-cheek.... You know he's being funny, because he opens his mouth. I'm used to it, love it really.....



Fede-poo.....

I don't know who it was who said that "a sense of humor is simply a sense of proportion," but that person was right.

Of course, humor is wasted until it impinges on a mind already humourous; one who, already possesed of such a sense of proportion, can sense the existence of it in the mind of another.

Federica, you're beautiful and I love you.

Simonthepilgrim

Je suis desolé, mon petit pôte, mais je n'ai pas compris la fin dse ta phrase. Que veut dire "ne plus incredibles qu'etat"? Est-ce du français canadien? Aies pitié pour un pauvre Européen. Et si mes plaisanteries te paraissent gauches, je m'efforcerai de faire mieux à l'avenir.

Brigid

That's some beautiful French, Simon. I don't get the chance to hear it very often and even less of a chance to hear it in European style! lol! It's so lovely. I understand European French better than Canadian French because my French teacher in high school was northern Italian.

federica

Oui...Nous Northern Italiani are a very bizzarre groupe des personnes, bien entendus mais non capiti mai....!

Sorry H...Hyjacking your thread with sillies...

Thank you for the compliment. You are, believe me, too kind....

buddhafoot

Damn French....

-bf

XingPing

Brigid wrote:

That's some beautiful French, Simon.

Mais non. Toutement des bruites macabres d'un chat trompe.

I don't get the chance to hear it very often and even less of a chance to hear it in European style! lol! It's so lovely. I understand European French better than Canadian French because my French teacher in high school was northern Italian.

Mine was Parisian.

Brigitte, mon petite je ne veule dire, faite les bon temps rouler, s'il vous plait.

XingPing

federica wrote:

Oui...Nous Northern Italiani are a very bizzarre groupe des personnes, bien entendus mais non capiti mai....!

Sorry H...Hyjacking your thread with sillies...

Thank you for the compliment. You are, believe me, too kind....

I meant every word of it, dear.

XingPing

Hello? Thread? Are we having fun yet?

I can't imagine who got all the Creole started, but I know it couldn't have been me, because I never do that dumb stuff unless i'm REALLY BORED, and I haven't been bored.

A dancing fewl? Perhaps. But not bored.

Simonthepilgrim

horaku wrote:

Mais non. Toutement des bruites macabres d'un chat trompe.



Mine was Parisian.

Brigitte, mon petite je ne veule dire, faite les bon temps rouler, s'il vous plait.

J'aimerai bien t'entendre à Paris, mon petit Horaku, car ta langue écrite me fait penser à une vache espagnole!

Brigid

LOL!

XingPing

Here's another article on H. S. Olcott. The Aryasangha site is down.

http://www.canadiancontent.net/en/jd/go?Url=http://www.sundayobserver.lk/2002/02/17/fea09.html

Col. Olcott - The great Buddhist revivalist
by Aryadasa Ratnasinghe


"Oh! lovely Lanka, Gem of the Summer Seas. How doth thy sweet image rise before me, as I recount my experience among thy children, of my success in warming their hearts to revere their incomparable religion and its holiest Founder. Happy the karma which brought me to the shores."

- Col. H. S. Olcott.

One of the most memorable events in the history of the revival of Buddhism in Sri Lanka and its recovery from the onslaughts of Colonial rule and Christian missionary activities, since the coming of the Portuguese in 1505, was the arrival in the island of Col. Henry Steele Olcott (1832-1907), on May 18, 1880. From that time, he worked hard for the cause of Buddhism and Buddhist education, when 375 years of foreign rule had sapped its vitality.

Col. Olcott was born on August 1. 1832 and his parents were Wycliff Olcott and his wife Alice Steele. They were Roman Catholics and leaving their homeland (England) had migrated to the United States soon after marriage and settled down at Orange, New Jersey. In his career in life, Col. Olcott was first an agricultural scientist, then he got enlisted as an army officer and thereafter, he practised as a lawyer.

In 1875, Col Olcott founded the Theosophical Society in New York and spent most of his time devoted to spirituality. Theosophy is a name applied to various systems of 'divine power', but in particular to the doctrine enunciated by the Theosophical Society, based on the Hindu principles of 'karma' (actions volitional) and rebirth as is corollary and Nirvana as the goal of the aspirant Buddhist.

Col. Olcott who had already embraced Buddhism while in New York, publicly avowed his conversion, a week after arrival in the island, by reciting 'pancaseela' (the five moral vows of abstinence in Buddhism, from killing, lying, sexual misconduct, falsehood and drinking intoxicants), before the Ven. Akmeemana Dhammarama Nayake Thera of the Vijayananda Temple in Galle, which event served as a symbolic identification of himself among the local Buddhist population. Thereafter, he looked into the sad plight of the Buddhist community, to make an astute diagnosis as to how the situation could be revived.

What made Col. Olcott to become a Buddhist convert, was the publication 'Panadura Vadaya' (the Great Panadura Controversy), which received international recognition as 'The Great Debate on Buddhism and Christianity Face to Face! The Debate was held on August 26, 1873, on a block of land called Dombagahawatta, belonging to P. Jeramis Dias, a wealthy and prominent Buddhist in Panadura and he allowed to use his land for the purpose, situated a little away from the Rankot Vihara. He also agreed to defray all expenditure incurred on the Debate.

Dynamic

This spot is now demarcated by a fence with the statue of the dynamic orator, Ven. Migettuwatte Gunananda Thera, who participated in the Debate on behalf of the Buddhists. Rev. David de Silva spoke on behalf of the Christians. The outcome of the Debate was the result of a speech made by the Methodist priest, at the Wesley Church in Panadura, on June 12, 1873, against Buddhism. The Debate ended peacefully with loss to the Christians, which played an important part in the history of Buddhism under the British sovereignty.

The then Editor of the Times of Ceylon, had the Debate translated into English by one Edmund Perera and having published it, gave a copy to Dr. J. M. Peebles, the American spiritualist, who happened to be in Colombo at the time. The Editor John Cooper took a great interest in the Debate and he, perhaps, thought that it should be given international publicity. Dr. Peebles, on his return to the United States showed it to Col. Olcott, whom he knew before as a Roman Catholic.

Col. Olcott, after reading the Debate, was so impressed, that he wrote to Ven. Migettuwatte Gunananda Thera and the Most Ven. Hikkaduwe Siri Sumangala Nayake Thera, who took a keen interest in the Debate, that in the interest of the universal brotherhood , he had founded the Theosophical Society, inspired by oriental philosophies, and that he would come to Sri Lanka to help the Buddhists to regain their lost heritage and to resuscitate Buddhism that was at an ebb.

The Buddhist Theosophical Society (BTS) was established in Sri Lanka, on June 17, 1880, which campaigned to educate Buddhist children in the English medium, a privilege exclusively enjoyed by Christian children attending missionary schools, most of which were conducted by the Christian clergy. In 1822, the Church Missionary Society was founded to spread the Christian doctrine among the 'heathen' population through education media. Col. Olcott became aware that thousands of boys had been converted to denominational Christianity, though not directly, but through the missionary propaganda, especially in schools.

The Buddhists, until 1870, had their own schools to teach Sinhala in temples throughout the island, but the Colonial government did not want that Buddhist boys should be taught English in missionary schools funded by missionary societies. In 1870, and Education Act was passed and temple schools became taboo to Christian children.

Propagation

Col. Olcott, for the first time after the destruction of Buddhism in India, convened a meeting of delegates of the Buddhists of Burma (now Myanmar), Chittagong, Sri Lanka and Japan, to consider what steps should be taken for the propagation of Buddhism in those countries. With his initiative, the Maha Bodhi Society was established on May 31, 1891, in India (known as the Buddhagaya Maha Bodhi Society) and Col. Olcott was elected Chief Adviser and Director, unanimously.

As the awakener of a nation out of long slumber, as the crusader who campaigned to regain its due place to Buddhism, as the agitator who caused the Colonial government of the day, to declare the Vesak fullmoon day as a statutory holiday in Sri Lanka, as the designer of the now internationally famous Buddhist flag and as the founder of national educational institutions, such as Ananda College in Colombo in 1886, the Mahinda College in Galle in 1892 and the Dharmaraja College in Kandy in 1887, Col. Olcott's service towards Buddhism and education was manifold.

Col. Olcott was a man of many parts. he devoted his early life to the service of his country. He founded agricultural schools in the United States and is recognised as the founder of the present system of national agricultural education in the United States. Hiss goal was for the service of mankind and to awake them from the sloth of despondency. During his first sojourn in the island, there were only nine post-primary schools conducted by the Buddhists as against 642 Christian Missionary Schools.

When we speak of Col. Olcott, we cannot omit to mention the name of the Russian-born Helena Petronova Blavatsky, who was also a Theosophist who accompanied Col. Olcott to Sri Lanka. They both started the Theosophical Society in New York and worked for the spiritual progression of the converted community.

Col. Olcott's last visit to Sri Lanka was on November 24, 1906. On February 17,1907, he passed away at 7.15 a.m., at the Headquarters of the Theosophical Society in Adyar in India. A statue of this great personality stands opposite the Fort Railway Station, remarkable for his bushy beard.

Imago

buddhafoot wrote:

I think that's quite enough of that US slander, Simon.

Wow, saying that Madame (?!) Blavatsky was an occultist hoax and inventor of the Mahatmic Buddhism has nothing to do with bashing USA.

Better read what the otherwise very restrained and germanly polite Max Muller had to say about HPB

http://www.orientalia.org/article278.html
(skip the Russian Intro).

buddhafoot

Huh?

-bf

federica

Yeh.....Wot he sed.....:wtf:

XingPing

Imago wrote:

Wow, saying that Madame (?!) Blavatsky was an occultist hoax and inventor of the Mahatmic Buddhism has nothing to do with bashing USA.

Better read what the otherwise very restrained and germanly polite Max Muller had to say about HPB

http://www.orientalia.org/article278.html
(skip the Russian Intro).

Even the unutterable H. S. Olcott, her consort, had trouble dealing with Mme. Blavatsky. She had a legendary temper.

But Thou, Knight from beyond the Known Realm, hast posted a link of no reference to Max Muller or anything else Pertinent upon this Thread. Declare thy Lineage and thy Intentions, Sire, else I strike thee right Grieviously upon thy discourteous Helm.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Imago

An article written by Max Muller and exposing the charlatanerie of Elena Petrovna Blavatskaya has no reference to Max Muller and HPB?! Hm...

Are you sure you read the English full text of the article? If not, here is an excerpt from it:

I must say that one of Madame Blavatsky’s greatest admirers, Colonel Olcott, has of late years entered on a much more healthy sphere of activity, one in which he and his friends may do some real good. He has encouraged and helped the publication of authentic texts of the old Brahmanic and the Buddhist religions. He has tried to inspire both Brahmans and Buddhists with respect for their old religions, and has helped them to discover in their sacred books some rays of truth to guide them through the dark shadows of life. He has shown them how, in spite of many differences, their various sects share much in common, and how they should surrender what is not essential and keep what is essential as the true bond of a wide religious brotherhood. [A United Buddhist World: being Fourteen Fundamental Buddhistic Beliefs, certified by the high Priests of Burma, Chittagong, Ceylon, and Japan, to be common to Northern and Southern Buddhism. Compiled by H.S. Olcott (Madras, 1892).] In all this he has my fullest sympathy. It is because I love Buddha and admire Buddhist morality that I cannot remain silent when I see his [Buddha's] noble figure lowered to the level of religious charlatans, or his teaching misrepresented as esoteric twaddle.

federica

....Methinks the gauntlet hath been worthily taken up, Horaku, Good Sir Knight....prithee gentlemen, make this a brave, fair and honourable joust.....

*curtises and flutters 'kerchief*.......

XingPing

Imago wrote:

An article written by Max Muller and exposing the charlatanerie of Elena Petrovna Blavatskaya has no reference to Max Muller and HPB?! Hm...

Are you sure you read the English full text of the article? If not, here is an excerpt from it:

How boring, sire! Please essay something that I can at least SEE! The best account of H. S. Olcott's involvement with the Sinhala Buddhist Revival, which is, rather than the difficult Mme. Blavatsky, the subject of this thread, was by Stephen Prothero, and was posted to the Aryasangha site, which has, quite stupidly, taken this exact opportunity to disappear.

All of that spastic wierdity notwithstanding, however, yours truly somehow could not help scarfing off with the source code to the offending articles about Col. Olcott, which I cleaned up and posted to an Olcott folder in the Files section of the group referenced in my signature below.

Please familiarize yourself with the literature on this subject, and then post something that is worth my time to consider.

Brigid

Are you kidding, Horaku? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and imagine that you just have a rather sharp sense of humour instead of jumping to the conclusion that the above post is sneering, arrogant, rude and nasty. What's your point and who are you trying to impress?

federica

....*I don't like the tone this is taking..... It is unnecessary, and unbecoming of those who purport to follow a Buddhist 8Fold Path..... *

Brigid

Sorry, Fede. I better kick myself off this thread so that I have a better chance to hold my tongue. I got a little annoyed.

XingPing

Brigid wrote:

Are you kidding, Horaku? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and imagine that you just have a rather sharp sense of humour instead of jumping to the conclusion that the above post is sneering, arrogant, rude and nasty. What's your point and who are you trying to impress?

Please consider this, mon cherie:

1. I posted a link here to historically critical material about American Buddhism. (That's the subject of this particular forum, remember?

2. The site I linked to, which has been stable for years, then went down, within weeks of my linking to it.

3. I secured the source code to the documents, which happen to be dead on the designated subject matter of this entire forum.

4. In the presumed absence of the relevant material, a previously unknown creature logs on, and proceeds to sling mud at one of the principals in the disappeared material, referencing other material which has not mysteriously disappeared.

5. You ventilate your beginningless problem about everything I write.

I think my only Buddhist response to this is to invite you to THINK about the causality involved in this. What requires me to presume that this mud slinger is the friend of me, the forum, or American Buddhism?

Do you, perhaps, consider this mud-slinger your friend?

buddhafoot

Okay... so what is your point, horaku?

-bf

Brigid

Horaku,

First of all, I am not your cherie.
Secondly, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I don't know to whom you are referring when you say "mud slinger" nor do I care about your little drama in the slightest.

I don't like your divisive, snide and arrogant speech. In this place we are all friends. If you've come here to start trouble by trying to turn people against each other or to incite anger you've come to the wrong place. This is a peaceful and respectful group united in the pursuit of The Middle Way. Don't mistake our kindness and tolerance for weakness of mind or resolve. If you wish to be accepted and respected here you must extend to all of us the same basic human courtesies we have extended to you. We will not tolerate those who wish to divert us from our pursuit in order to play out their own personal and petty ego dramas.

federica

Firstly, it's "MA Cherie"....

*Secondly, I think you have a chip on yourshoulder, Anger issues or a confrontation problem, Horaku. Please sort it, and consider yourself welcome to continue in a more civil manner. If not, you know where the door is. *

Simonthepilgrim

horaku wrote:

...........(edit)..............

1. I posted a link here to historically critical material about American Buddhism. (That's the subject of this particular forum, remember?

2. The site I linked to, which has been stable for years, then went down, within weeks of my linking to it.

3. I secured the source code to the documents, which happen to be dead on the designated subject matter of this entire forum.

4. In the presumed absence of the relevant material, a previously unknown creature logs on, and proceeds to sling mud at one of the principals in the disappeared material, referencing other material which has not mysteriously disappeared.

5. You ventilate your beginningless problem about everything I write.

I think my only Buddhist response to this is to invite you to THINK about the causality involved in this. What requires me to presume that this mud slinger is the friend of me, the forum, or American Buddhism?

Do you, perhaps, consider this mud-slinger your friend?

Horaku,

You asked, in your first post, "why it is considered politically correct to deny the existence of American Buddhism" I found this an interesting comment because I had never come across the idea that there either existed or that it was not-OK to refer to "American Buddhism". As I understand the life story of H. S. Olcott, he was instrumental in the revival of Sri Lankan Buddhism. Is this how you see it?

Olcott's close relationship with HPB does tend to tar him with the same brush, and she is generally discounted these days. Perhaps you mean that she should be reinstated in some way.

The original site to which you linked ceased to function? Are you suggesting that your link/question had something to do with this disappearance? If so, could you share your actions as there are a few sites I would like to close down?!?

Your point 4 (above) does seem rather disparaging. Since when do we refer to each other as "creatures"?

Your point 5 is almost completely opaque to me. What on earth do you mean by "beginningless problem"?

If you are of the opinion that there exists an "American Buddhism", perhaps you would be kind enough to share the ways in which it differs from the other, multiple branches of the Tree of the Dharma.

XingPing

Simonthepilgrim wrote:

As I understand the life story of H. S. Olcott, he was instrumental in the revival of Sri Lankan Buddhism. Is this how you see it?

Some of the material that I have saved from online oblivion refers to the fact that the Buddhism of H. S. Olcott has gone on in both Sri Lanka and the United States.

That opinion was written by a Sri lankan. Does that make it more "politically correct" than mine?"

XingPing

The Aryasangha site that I originally referenced is back up. They have some encoding problems with their documents that they didn't have before, but I think you'll find the material on Olcott well worth perusing.

Prothero's article is still there. You can find it by clicking the red "Henry P. Olcott" button in the link bar at the top of the page.