12 steppers... please lend me your ears and your HP

gracelee

I was in a 12 step program...

I quit because I cannot get my head around the God thing. I did so much reading(mostly Kevin griffin) I studied I translated,I talked to people but eventually I realized that although they say you can have a god of your understanding, that god has to be a benevolent force outside of yourself that is in control of your life and will take away your illness. I wanted Buddha, dharma and sangha to be my higher power. but it doesn't work. everyone says things like your over complicating things and just believe/act as if but they don't respect the fact that i don't have an external HP. even if i decide that my higher power is the rules that govern life (dharma) awareness(buddha) and love (sangha) it doesn't link into what other people say at meetings or what my sponsor says. its frustrating that they say you can have your own god but only as long as its fits the exact pattern of everyone else's.

I feel cheated. I am a spiritual person. I have a Higher power. I need help and I cant get it.

Sorry about the rant.

Grace

Rodrigo

Seems a tough situation, it must be very frustrating. Most people can't recognize when they need help and you do, which is the most difficult part of the procceess. I don't know what you could do, though. Probably the good people from NB will come up with ideas.

RebeccaS

You could try a different meeting, somewhere else I mean.

federica

@Tosh will help. He's a Buddhist, ex-Alcoholic (okay, okay - you know what I mean) and has a good handle on this..........

caz

@Tosh @Tosh @Tosh @Tosh

federica

Tosh

Hi Grace,

The 'God thing' is easy to overcome and should not be a hurdle. My sponsor is a Christian; I'm not. I sponsor guys who believe in a traditional God deity, and others who do not. It simply is not a problem because I don't make it a problem.

Just use G.O.D (Group of Drunks); the A.A. Group as your higher power. Or the philosophy of the 12 Steps, or Buddha, or a door nob; it seriously doesn't matter. I think Jason made a post recently (not about A.A.), but he said something like, "You do not have to believe in anything, you only have to do the actions, and it will work!"

Step 2 = Came to believe that a power greater than ourself could restore us to sanity. This is just having a bit of faith - notice the word 'came' - it does not say 'we believed right away'.

Step 3 = Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

Well how do we turn our will and our life (our thoughts and our actions) over to a G.O.D ? How we do it is to make a firm commitment to do Steps 4 through to 12 to the best of our ability. You know you've done Step 3 when you're working on your Step 4.

And the 12 Steps are a program of action, not beliefs; they're perfect for us alkies with a messy past. Please do not procrastinate over the 'God steps'; some folk do this to avoid doing the tough stuff.

And even Cult Leader, sorry, A.A. Co-founder, Bill Wilson said in an interview:

8Q - What about the alcoholic who says that he cannot possibly believe in God?

8A - A great many of them come to A.A. and they say that they are trapped. By this they mean that we have convinced them that they are fatally ill, yet they cannot accept a belief in God and His grace as a means of recovery. Happily this does not prove to be an impossible dilemma at all. We simply suggest that the newcomers take an easy stance and an open mind; that he proceeds to practice those parts of the Twelve Steps that anyone's common sense would readily recommend. He can certainly admit that he is an alcoholic; that he ought to make a moral inventory; that he ought to discuss his defects with another person; that he should make restitution for harms done; and that he can be helpful to other alcoholics.

We emphasize the 'open mind,' that at least he should admit that there might be a 'Higher Power.' He can certainly admit that he is not God, nor is mankind in general. If he wishes he could place his own dependence upon his own A.A. group. That group is certainly a "Higher Power," so far as recovery from alcoholism is concerned.

P.S. I'm not sure who these people are who are telling you that this 'higher power' has to be something external to you; they ought to try reading that Big Book they probably thump.

Here's some Big Book quotes:

Page 55
We found the Great Reality deep down within us. (notice this is not some external power that those people are saying you need).

Page 12
He said, "Why don't you choose your own conception of God?"

Page 93
If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God.

Page 47
When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God.

So if you wish to use the Buddha, or anything you want, you fill yer boots. It really does not matter.

I'm a huge fan of the 12 Step program; it's a spiritual path in it's own right and it is very 'Buddhist' too. Notice Steps 10, 11, and 12; they're easily translated as practising an ethical life, mindfulness, meditation and compassion. If that's not 'Buddhist', I'll eat my hat.

Tosh

Oh, and have a google for Jim Burwell too. He's my favourite A.A. athiest; he's a bit of a hero of mine; (he's dead now), but without this militant atheist in early A.A., A.A. would've just turned into some niche religious cult.

Jim Burwell - the atheist - is credited with being a huge force in the shaping of A.A..

Tosh

gracelee said:

its frustrating that they say you can have your own god but only as long as its fits the exact pattern of everyone else's.

Can I just bore on a little bit more? The power we get from doing the 12 Steps is the ability to find some measure of inner peace without the need for alcohol or drugs to give us that sense of ease and comfort.

If we're peaceful, we just don't need to drink or drug.

I don't really need to speak about my higher power because it's just boring. If you get through the steps and start sponsoring, your sponsees will maybe try to tell you about what they use as a Higher Power, and it's boring. Seriously. Early on I'll explain to a sponsee that I have a Higher Power, but if I tried to explain it to them, I'd bore the breasts of them, but if they want to know, I'll quite happily bore them with my concepts; funnily enough they never ask! Then at Step 3 I'll ask them if they have a Higher Power and I'll say it's a "Yes or No question". If they say "Yes", we do the Step 3 prayer together. If they say "No", we then have a discussion (I'll suggest they just use the group and say the prayer with me).

We then "launch out on a course of vigorous action" and I'll show them how to do a Step 4 after I show them mine first; I even do a mini Step 5 with my guys and tell them about the worst things on my inventory. I find it helps them to get honest when they know my bad stuff.

I've got a brilliant Big Book sponsor; I sponsor just like he sponsored me. It's your recovery, you can change sponsors - there should be no ego in sponsorship - you are responsible for your own sobriety. If you have some militant hardcore theist who insists that you need to believe in Jesus or something weird like that; change her for another sponsor.

But please, do not chuck the baby out with the bathwater. We need you. There could be a lady waiting to come into A.A. and may relate to you and your beliefs, rather than some fundamentalist God-type person. Stay!

Kind regards,

Tosh

Jeffrey

It's possible there is a Buddhist center with a substance abuse program. There is one in my town in Grand Rapids, MI, USA.

Daiva

Tosh explained it wonderfully and perfectly.
I've been clean and sober 24 years - and my Higher Power when I was new was Led Zeppelin. That was the only HP I could not find fault with. It doesn't really matter. It worked for me until I gained a more profound understanding of "not this, not that," which serves as my HP now. I don't try to analyze it any further and don't feel the need to explain it to anyone. And in the Christian sense, God is in everyone and everything, not "outside" of oneself so I am not sure why people are telling you this.
Also, here is a site that has some resources for Buddhists in recovery:
http://www.buddhistrecovery.org/links.htm
And Against the Stream does have some stuff placing AA in the context of Buddhism. There are a bunch of teachings on their website and YouTube.
http://againstthestream.org/
Am not sure where you live, but ATS has Buddhists in Recovery meetings as well.

Davetheseeker

Congrats on your decision to quit!!!!!!!!

@tosh has made some really great points.
I'm also an alcoholic in the program, 25+ years of heavy drinking/drugging, and had some of the same 'issues' you're having.
I work the steps to the best of my ability and use the teachings of Buddha to 'supplement' the parts of the steps/program that don't 'fit my understanding' of a HP.

Please don't give up on the program! It has saved many many lives including mine.
And has made my life more than I ever thought it could be in the year+ I've been sober.
I now know, that if this is happiness, than I've never been happy before in my entire life!

Best wishes in your recovery

footiam

gracelee said:

I was in a 12 step program...

I quit because I cannot get my head around the God thing. I did so much reading(mostly Kevin griffin) I studied I translated,I talked to people but eventually I realized that although they say you can have a god of your understanding, that god has to be a benevolent force outside of yourself that is in control of your life and will take away your illness. I wanted Buddha, dharma and sangha to be my higher power. but it doesn't work. everyone says things like your over complicating things and just believe/act as if but they don't respect the fact that i don't have an external HP. even if i decide that my higher power is the rules that govern life (dharma) awareness(buddha) and love (sangha) it doesn't link into what other people say at meetings or what my sponsor says. its frustrating that they say you can have your own god but only as long as its fits the exact pattern of everyone else's.

I feel cheated. I am a spiritual person. I have a Higher power. I need help and I cant get it.

Sorry about the rant.

Grace

If having a Higher power creates so much anxiety, most probably it is not worthwhile having. Otherwise, it means you have to be the Higher power.