Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Changing Views
Hi there.
I have been brought up as a Catholic/Christian. I wasn't ever the "church-ed up" type of individual but I believed what the Church taught me. Then, ironically, my theology teacher taught us to open our doors to new ideas, don't always believe what you are taught. This is when, my friend Brad, started to believe in the Buddhist religion and it got me thinking. Maybe I too could open my doors to Buddhism.
Now, I am not saying that I reject Christianity whole-heartedly. I believe some of the Commandments still apply, such as Thou shalt not kill and Thou shalt not steal. I just don't think that Christianity is the right way for me to be traveling through my life. Does that make me a bad person because I am rejecting my faith in this way?
I believe that there is something watching over us. I do not know if it is God or not because, well, nobody has ever witnessed him. That is why I am kinda straying away from Christianity. They keep talking about what God is and who God is, when nobody has ever known that great question. I was just wondering if Buddhists believe that something is watching over them or not?
I am not the best expert in the subject of religion so if someone could enlighten me on this subject that would be great.
Also, does anyone know where I could find some cheap books on meditation and Buddhism? Maybe some music to meditate to? I have been looking but everthing looks to expensive. Thanks!
I have been brought up as a Catholic/Christian. I wasn't ever the "church-ed up" type of individual but I believed what the Church taught me. Then, ironically, my theology teacher taught us to open our doors to new ideas, don't always believe what you are taught. This is when, my friend Brad, started to believe in the Buddhist religion and it got me thinking. Maybe I too could open my doors to Buddhism.
Now, I am not saying that I reject Christianity whole-heartedly. I believe some of the Commandments still apply, such as Thou shalt not kill and Thou shalt not steal. I just don't think that Christianity is the right way for me to be traveling through my life. Does that make me a bad person because I am rejecting my faith in this way?
I believe that there is something watching over us. I do not know if it is God or not because, well, nobody has ever witnessed him. That is why I am kinda straying away from Christianity. They keep talking about what God is and who God is, when nobody has ever known that great question. I was just wondering if Buddhists believe that something is watching over them or not?
I am not the best expert in the subject of religion so if someone could enlighten me on this subject that would be great.
Also, does anyone know where I could find some cheap books on meditation and Buddhism? Maybe some music to meditate to? I have been looking but everthing looks to expensive. Thanks!
0
Comments
WHO is it that shalt not kill?
WHO is it that shalt not steal?
What I'm about to tell you is totally useless. Books won't answer this for you, though there are good ones that might be of use in other ways, and that others here will point you to. In the Original Mind, there is no killing. In the Original Mind, there is no stealing. In the Original Mind, there is no bad person. In the Original Mind, there is no good person. WHO has this Original Mind? WHO is THOU? See original mind directly, pay attention, look at what you're doing, who you're with, what thoughts and emotions come up. Learn to breath and to walk just to breath and to walk. Be gentle with yourself.
In Deep Gassho
Genryu
Try Thich Nhat Hahn.. both the heart of the buddhas teachings, and the mircale of mindfulness.. its pretty much reccommended by a ton of ppl in here and is featured in all the book parts of the forum that i've seen...
it should help you understand what buddhism and meditation are.. enlightenment is something which cannot be given.. you can only do this yourself with maybe someone helping you and guiding you..
anyway.. there are different facets and orders of buddhism.. tibetans believe in reincarnation and some buddhists don't.. buddhism does not say there is an absolute way to be but rather tell show's you stuff and tells you to challenge it and accept what you want..
in general id say buddhists accept the possibilities,... so they would not say there was no god nor say there was one.. buddhism will not destroy your beliefs.. there are christiano-buddhists lol
The Library features many books by Thich Naht Hanh. I think it is totally the the wrong way to go through your life WITHOUT questioning the most basic principles you have been taught.
Church-ed up? Sounds like something Brad would have said. That kid is a doofus isn't he?
Not really. It's not about accepting what you want. That's called egotism.
Not about accepting what we want, no. But accepting what we find?
In my case, when it comes to issues of belief, what I find on a range of issues - What happens after death? Is there a God? Or something "else"? What's wrong with Norwich City Football Club? - is that I just don't know. Is that ok? It's kind of a relief. And, since I started following Buddhism, finding an "answer" to these issues seems to matter less. Except for the Norwich City one, that really bugs me.
Martin.
There are no 'Musts' or 'must nots' in Buddhism.
In a nutshell, if you google and find the kalama Sutra, what the Buddha advises is that you take nothing at face value...not even that which you "hear" from his own lips. Examine, against all criteria possible, the things you read, see and hear, for yourself. weigh these morsels of information against the logic and Truth as you already know it.
The Buddha also spoke of Four Inconjecturables.... Specific aspects of Buddhism which, for the Unenlightened Mind, are impossible to really understand fully and clearly.... But for those on The Path, the Inconjecturables may be legion in number....
If you find an answer to your Question, be happy and satisfied - but open to the fact that all is transitory and impermanent, and that you should maybe, perhaps, like to stay open to your Views and Truths being subject to alteration and change....
If you do NOT find an answer...let it be, also. Something will come. there is no shame in the phrase 'I don't Know.' Mystery in itself, can be a wondrous teacher....
What watches over us is only our own actions of body, speech, and mind; if with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox, if with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.
You are not rejecting Christianity if you seek to understand your own mind. What a true follower of the Dhamma rejects is ignorance. Whatever beliefs we may begin our spiritual journeys with, the practitioner of Dhamma strives to dig up the very root of suffering, the root of ignorance.
Best wishes,
Jason
But deep down, isn't that why most all people here came to Buddhism or any religion for that matter. Whatever prior beliefs were not satisfactory so when we discovered something we like in Buddhism, we accept it and live it out.
My opinion on religious beliefs is that you should believe or disbelieve what you want as long as you do not hurt yourself or others by doing so. As long as you challenge ever aspect of it, what is the harm? I don't see it so much as egotistical as I do liberating.
i mean what i gathered from tnh was that perceptions are false so we should always challenge them.. when you believe in something with your heart and mind.. and theres no questions left i accept it.. buy i can always ask new questions..
i never accept anything if i don't believe in it with my heart and body.. so many things i do and don't accept.. as i see it in buddhism people are all in different places trying to understand things more and be more open minded. Its not like christianity in the respect that everythings sorted, just read this book and accept it as absolute and ignore your own beliefs..
i've found christians with build in bible librarys in their head, and they think they are wise knowing loads of quotes but they actually have no comprehension of the quotes or understanding.. and that is completely useless and not the path.. in buddhism i think its much harder not to at least follow the path to some extent
i found a bunch of christians who think all muslims hate christians, and they kept babbling about gay ppl being sinners.. and that the bible is absolute and they that all non believers will go to hell.. tbh they sound more like the ppl they prosecute then the ppl who are being prosecuted
theres no set answers.. just guides like the four noble truths and stuff like that, which tbh i can never remember. and don't think are really very useful.. like the commandments they r so obvious and deep rooted in life.. i find little use for remembering them
Many thanks, ZMG. It's good to see you're feeling a bit more yourself again. It's been a long time.
Peace,
The Four Noble Truths and The Noble Eightfold Path is what the Buddha taught and it is the way to reach enlightenment. Comparing them to The Ten Commandments would be like comparing a multicoloured tablecloth to one of it's threads. The FNT and the NEP certainly do contain moral understandings but that's only a part of the whole thing. If you want to understand Buddhism you have to understand the FNT and the NEP. No ifs, ands or buts about it.
Raven,
Don't worry too much about 'being a Buddhist' for now. Just study & familiarize yourself with the path. Eventually you will come to understand why Buddhism holds such & such views. For now, stick to the basics, and don't force your beliefs. They will come in time as genuine insights. Sure, understand that that what the Buddha taught is something special and that just picking and choosing which teachings suit your fancy won't get you enlightened. But don't fret too much now about the belief thing. It's taken a long time to get past a lot of my former beliefs, and a lot of them still linger on in one way or another, though they do not have the binding affect they once did.
Also, people have recommended Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh as a good author. If you want a nice read about the life of the Buddha, you could try Old Path, White Clouds. It is based on the historical accounts, but written in a narrative style. A movie is in the works. Also, you might want to read Living Buddha, Living Christ and Going Home: Jesus and Buddha as Brothers since you are transitioning from Christianity. They are also by Thich Nhat Hanh.
Anyway, good luck with your practice and feel free to ask plenty of questions.
May you be well
_/\_
metta
if i guess 4nt is life,death,happiness and sorrow but im probs wrong
and the 8fp... i can only member a few things of by heart.. i do follow them but too much to remember .. id have to continually see them over and over .. but i dont think a mobile library in me head is any use..
I'm not sure if you're serious, Celebrin. The Four Noble Truths are easier to remember than a mobile phone number and, without them, Buddhism makes no sense.
One thing that is very certain about all Buddhist practice is that it requires the practitioner to find a level of personal discipline. And to establish a 'rule of life' which accords with the interwoven elements of the Noble Eightfold Path. It is at this point that a choice may need to be made, particularly here, in the West, where all sorts of traditions co-exist.
But it all starts - and, ultimately, ends - around the Four Noble Truths. The Buddha taught these at the first Turning of the Wheel at Sarnath and spoke of them immediately before his death. They are the basis of everything else.
Dare I? I suppose I do: the Four Noble Truths, with apologies for any errors and omissions:
First is the truth of suffering. I notice that life is imperfect, unsatisfactory. I am subject to stress, sickness, old age and, inevitably, death.
Second is the truth of the origin of suffering. As I look more deeply into my own dissatisfactions and sufferings, I perceive that I, myself, am either the cause of the pain or a major contributor to it.
Third is the truth of a way out of suffering. At first, this may be a truth that we have to take on trust! But, as we begin to withdraw our energy from 'feeding' the causes of our suffering and 'feed' a better way, we realise that there is a way out.
Fourth is the truth of the Noble Eighfold Path which is the way out.
i know like 2 phone numbers of by heart.. thats excluding 999 and 911, 118118 and 118247 oh and 0800 reverse lol
as 4 books i tried pema chodron and i think shes rubbish,
ripoche and tnh for me.. although i think ripoche is a bit agressive
And, in the learning path that is Buddhist practice, this is best evidenced by the virtue of humility. This, however, is a quality which also needs to be learned and practised over time. Whilst the young (and we must suppose that Celebrin is still young, not just a professional feather-ruffler) believe that they will live for ever, they also have been given the conviction that their attitudes and abilities, here and now, need no further improvement, because there is no time. No professional athlete believes that they can win without practice; no great musician believes that they can avoid it.
I may be among the older members of this e-sangha and have studied a bit, but I can say with all sincerity that I continue to discover, here as in other places, how little I know and how much other people have to teach me.
On a further, personal, note, I would say that I have found that an attitude of humility and not-knowing is now a far more comfortable posture than that of omniscience, prejudice and snap judgment. I feel more grouded and balanced. Compassion arises of itself and the incessant chatter in my head becomes, first, harmonious and, finally, still.
i wouldn't reccommend her books because i thought they didn't get to the heart of matters and were to vague, and id like to see how many times she repeated some words..
did you enjoy her books?
I'm the same way - with music, too. I'm Canadian, but I just can't get into Rush...sorry can't do it!
:canflag:
Celebrin,
Perhaps if you would have stated something along these lines, nobody would have taken offense:
Speaking of the 8-fold path, this issue of Right Speech asks us to be more mindful of what we choose to talk about and how we choose to say it. It is a cause for a awakening & reduces the suffering of ourselves & others. While perhaps Brigid should have taken this within the stride of her Dharma practice, along with the emotions your speech invoked, that does not mean you shouldn't be careful of your words, especially in regards to respected teachers/practitioners.
_/\_
metta
From the "The Five Wonderful Mindfulness Trainings" by Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh.
_/\_
metta
P.S.- Here is a commentary by TNH on the 4th precept/mindfulness training
http://dharma.ncf.ca/introduction/precepts/precept-4.html
You know full well you're dear to my heart and you know I'd hug the living daylights out of you if I ever met you, but there's no way I can ever let a phrase like that go unprotested, not in a million years. I know you didn't literally mean that Pema Chodron was rubbish. I'm not an idiot. But that was just too thoughtless a remark for me to take silently. She's a nun, for God's sake, Celebrin. You can't go around talking about nuns that way! lol! For the love of all that is good and pure in this world you can't be calling people rubbish, especially when they're obviously so far ahead of you or me on this path and especially when they're nuns!. Good nuns! It's just wrong!
Don't do it or I swear I'll get on a plane and come find you and I'll put you in a headlock and give you noogies until you beg for forgiveness. And don't think I won't, Celebrin. Even with my bad back I know I could still take you, and you know it as well. I will smack you upside the head (gently) until you say "No one is rubbish, especially not Pema Chodron" a hundred times. Am I making myself crystal clear, Celebrin? And if you treat people the way you treat yourself you'd better stop calling yourself rubbish or I'll come over there, I swear. Don't make me come over there....
I'm Canadian and I can't get into Rush, either. It's Geddy Lee. That voice. It's just too much...
The drumming's awesome though.
In my understanding, one does not become a Buddhist through study and application of the teachings of the Buddha. There is no becoming, but there is awakening.
Best Wishes
Sorry I've been so slack I've had in-laws in town.
I have the same problem remembering the mobile eightfold path so i just remember "cherish All life"............. and do as you wish.
of course you cant kill spiders and such and bacon sandwidches are out ! (lol)
try this in your ordinary daily life.Just cherish All life,yours too.
I read pema chordon many years ago and thought no big deal,however,i was going through a difficult time not long ago and re-read "when things fall apart" (as they were at the time) and began to realise what that wonderful little lady was getting at.
she too has been through some crap ya know,and she really tells it like it is,farts warts and all.so i hope someday you'll get the chance to re-read her with a different mind.
theres a "fifth" noble truth ! lol..."dont believe everything you think"
best wishes (from the gutter)
Hey, what about monks?! :hair:
Palzang
And if I haven't told you this recently, thanks for having mine.
Me too.
I'll hug ya, Pal. I'll hug the crap out of ya.
Then I'll give you an Atomic Wedgie, pinch yer butt and then give you a noogie on yer head.
That's how much I care for you!
-bf
Careful what you wish for - you just might get it!
Brigid - and what a nice back it is!
Palzang
Secondly, stop complimenting women's backsides on this forum (ie Brigid's backside) - I'm the designated troller around here. Haven't you heard?
-bf
Palzang
But could someone direct me to the also important issue of the Will Ferrel sp? movie
something nights........about the south.......PLEASE
I can't find that thread back
Thanks
Palzang