The Middle Path - The Only Path?

ajani_mgo

I do hear from somewhere that there is not just one way to Nirvana but 84,000...

But then, may all such paths be classified generally under "The Middle Path"? Indirectly, does it imply that no way of self-deprivation or no way of self-indulging may bring you there, and if so, why?

Something to cue you guys into the topic... Today's Beliefnet Buddhist Wisdom bite...

Let me tell you about the middle path. Dressing in rough and dirty garments, letting your hair grow matted, abstaining from eating any meat or fish, does not cleanse the one who is deluded. Mortifying the flesh through excessive hardship does not lead to a triumph over the senses. All self-inflicted suffering is useless as long as the feeling of self is dominant.

You should lose your involvement with yourself and then eat and drink naturally, according to the needs of your body. Attachment to your appetites--whether you deprive or indulge them--can lead to slavery, but satisfying the needs of daily life is not wrong. Indeed, to keep a body in good health is a duty, for otherwise the mind will not stay strong and clear.

This is the middle path.

-Discourse II

From "The Pocket Buddha Reader," edited by Anne Bancroft, 2000. Reprinted by arrangement with Shambhala Publications, Boston, www.shambhala.com.

TulachArd

This statement was Buddha’s insight into the futility of austere practices which he engaged in for a time.

The “middle path” does embrace living healthily.

There is enough suffering in life without resorting to mortification of the flesh or gluttony, both of which bring about unnecessary suffering and degradation of the body-mind.

Once the “middle path” is achieved, all paths, including the middle path, dissolve.

The middle way is just being natural and not putting obstacles in our way of progressive realization.

Simonthepilgrim

The middle way is just being natural

I have to disagree. Natural is exactly what it isn't. The Precepts enjoin a change in behaviour just as meditation entails a change of mind.

Unknown

Maybe natural was meant in terms of the absolute, if that's the right word. Taoism comes to mind; to practice no-action is to act naturally, in harmony with the Tao. It may not be natural to present circumstances, as they are perceived, but it's natural with regards to the ultimate way of things.

But that's just my wavering stab at it. Tulach Ard will have to explain.

federica

For my part, I can see Simon's point.... I think that up to the time I began to read, absorb, digest and implement the teachings of the Buddha, my actions - and re-actions - were probably extreme, in the sense that perhaps at times I would over-react.... I certainly acted more times than I would care to admit, without thinking, or stopping to consider the consequences....

....And at other times, I under-reacted....being hesitant, intimidated, misguided or simply cowardly and unaware....preferring for what ever reasons, to 'not get involved'....

Now,my actions are far more weighed up and considered....and even though I still make the most awful blunders at times (Don't I Simon.....?) I do try to remain consciously Mindful of the Middle Way. I guess practise makes it become natural, eventually.......But it IS hard work - !

Magwang

::

This path has also been called "against the stream" or "on the edge of a knife". Certainly not comfortable-sounding from those analogies! It requires energy and balance. Picture walking a tight-rope up to your waist in rushing water pulling at you.

::

federica

oh, yeh..... I do that all the time..... :crazy:

TulachArd

“You go to the marketplace barefooted, unadorned,
Smeared with mud, covered with dust, smiling.
Using no supernatural power
You bring the withered trees to bloom.”

Kuoan

From Essential Zen, edited by Kazuaki Tanahashi & Tensho David Schneider

We are all right! So beautiful!

ajani_mgo

I guess "natural" means being at peace, in resonance with yourself, instead of being confused, poisoned by indulgence and the three sins?

Simonthepilgrim

Tulach Ard wrote:

“You go to the marketplace barefooted, unadorned,
Smeared with mud, covered with dust, smiling.
Using no supernatural power
You bring the withered trees to bloom.”

Kuoan

From Essential Zen, edited by Kazuaki Tanahashi & Tensho David Schneider

We are all right! So beautiful!

Isn't this from within the context of the Ten Ox-Herding Pictures; the Tenth, if memory serve?

SomeWeirdWoman

Isn't this from within the context of the Ten Ox-Herding Pictures; the Tenth, if memory serve?

I think so.

SomeWeirdWoman

http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/ox.html

TulachArd

Simonthepilgrim wrote:

Isn't this from within the context of the Ten Ox-Herding Pictures; the Tenth, if memory serve?

Yes. :O)

Vacchagotta

"Middle path", besides being in reference to ascetism and hedonism, also indicates transcendence of the extremes of existence and non-existence. Not the suffering of conditioned existence, and not the nihilism of non-existence.

in friendliness,
V.

Bobby_Lanier

The Bodhisattva, or alternatively, bodhicitta, finds neither enlightenment treading the worldly path nor treading the life-denying ascetic path. It becomes more clear what the middle path means if we understand that the Bodhisattva discovers the ultimate medium of all things which transcends the worldly and the ascetic which are metaphors for bhava and vibhava. We may call this medium thatness, dharmakaya, pure mind, or tathagata. The essential thing for us is to apperceive it which will free us from death.

Love ya'll,

Bobby

Celebrin

for me the middle path is nothing is do with eating,sleeping and so forth.

The middle path is not being biased, and seeing things from all sides. This will generally lead ppl to eat healthlier and sleep better as this improves life but its not the path itself.

not1not2

Bobby_Lanier wrote:

The Bodhisattva, or alternatively, bodhicitta, finds neither enlightenment treading the worldly path nor treading the life-denying ascetic path. It becomes more clear what the middle path means if we understand that the Bodhisattva discovers the ultimate medium of all things which transcends the worldly and the ascetic which are metaphors for bhava and vibhava. We may call this medium thatness, dharmakaya, pure mind, or tathagata. The essential thing for us is to apperceive it which will free us from death.

Love ya'll,

Bobby

I would say that it also means a mindful engagement in all activity of thought, word & deed, rather than indulgence (which is heedlessness). Mindfully engaging (especially in regard to the 4NT) in all activities generally leads one away from extremes, as the payoff for indulging in pleasure or austerities is rendered unsatisfactory in doing so. Pleasures have their utility, but come with many negative side effects & so eventually they lose their intoxicating effects. Austerities have their utility but they cannot achieve the goal of ending suffering.

In other words, take your mind off of auto-pilot (any habitual state), and do things consciously.

_/\_
metta

not1not2

Simonthepilgrim wrote:

I have to disagree. Natural is exactly what it isn't. The Precepts enjoin a change in behaviour just as meditation entails a change of mind.

Perhaps it is quite natural once the effluents are removed?

Water is quite naturally water. Mind is quite naturally awake & pure. But water easily takes on the qualities of other things (salt, sugar, dirt, etc.) just as mind easily takes on the afflicted qualities of the khandas.

_/\_
metta

Simonthepilgrim

Perfect example, Not1not2. And as with purifying water, some pretty extreme methods are sometimes necessary, up to and including vapourising and distilling!

not1not2

A snippet from Ajahn Chah's A Taste of Freedom:

About this mind... In truth there is nothing really wrong with it. It is intrinsically pure. Within itself it's already peaceful. That the mind is not peaceful these days is because it follows moods. The real mind doesn't have anything to it, it is simply (an aspect of) Nature. It becomes peaceful or agitated because moods deceive it. The untrained mind is stupid. Sense impressions come and trick it into happiness, suffering, gladness and sorrow, but the mind's true nature is none of those things. That gladness or sadness is not the mind, but only a mood coming to deceive us. The untrained mind gets lost and follows these things, it forgets itself. Then we think that it is we who are upset or at ease or whatever.

But really this mind of ours is already unmoving and peaceful... really peaceful! Just like a leaf which is still as long as no wind blows. If a wind comes up the leaf flutters. The fluttering is due to the wind — the "fluttering" is due to those sense impressions; the mind follows them. If it doesn't follow them, it doesn't "flutter." If we know fully the true nature of sense impressions we will be unmoved.

Our practice is simply to see the Original Mind. So we must train the mind to know those sense impressions, and not get lost in them. To make it peaceful. Just this is the aim of all this difficult practice we put ourselves through.

I was reading through this & I thought it fit well into this discussion. Hope you find something helpful in it.

_/\_
metta

YogaMama

Celebrin wrote:

for me the middle path is nothing is do with eating,sleeping and so forth.

The middle path is not being biased, and seeing things from all sides. This will generally lead ppl to eat healthlier and sleep better as this improves life but its not the path itself.

To me, eating is a big part of the middle path. And maybe I have this wrong, but here is why I say that.....

I know a lot of people that are vegan and that completely runs their life and they insult others who are not vegan, which causes suffering to all parties invloved! I am a very healthy eater, but I try not to let it run my life (I eat Ben and Jerry's when I feel like it, wihtout over indulging!), nor do I try to insult or judge others who are not as healthy. So to me, following the middle path includes every single aspect of my life.

Or do I just have it all wrong??

federica

Nope, YM.... Spot-on... There is nothing that is not covered by the Eightfold Path - and thus, the Middle Way.....

Or to put it another way...

"All things in Moderation - including Moderation.....!" :tongue2:

treederwright

natural like that of tao, a reversed effort of balance through non effort. But the middle way in tibetian buddhism is strictly related through emptiness as a tenet and then acting as that is true and never not true. then the balance is made "naturally" in realization, but on the path of accumulation the middle way is very specific and subtle.