Israel and Hizbollah

ajani_mgo

Alright, it's nearly headlines for two weeks already...

I don't know if it's the right forum to place this (since Israel does not automatically equate to Judaism), but I am starting to wonder if I am right (along with a few other friends) to say that this war is ultimately linked back to the millenias ago... When the first recognized monotheist Abraham was born?

Brian

This war, in my opinion, is based on the same things that ALL human wars are based on: fear caused by ignorance and ego.

Brigid

I couldn't agree more, Brian.

inthedharma

I agree with you too Brian.

But some wars in my opinion you should add GREED to the list along with ignorance and ego.

ajani_mgo

How true...

But is it ever possible for one in a "perfect world" (so as to speak) to ever be constantly aware and not be in ignorance?

Brigid

Ajani,

I think there are different levels of ignorance and awareness. I think we can be unaware of our true natures and the ultimate reality of existence but understand that war is futile. It's about getting those in power onto the the same page.

Deb,

Yes, greed's a big one. Especially when it comes to the interest in oil.

inthedharma

Brigid,

Yes, Don't get me started on oil interests.........I have a really big soap box I love to stand on...............and go on and on and on and on........ lololol

ajani_mgo

Hmmm, I understand. How'd you expect Israel to react when two of their soldiers got kidnapped? I may see the logic of non-retaliation when it comes to two in a fight, but in the case of more macro-structural things like a nation, a sovereign, how wise or skilful is it to not retaliate? (by the way I disagree with the magnitude of Israel's so-called "retaliation")

Jason

Ajani,

War is ultimately linked to the mind being in conflict with the world.

Jason

simplelayperson

Hi AJ,
It can be different, someday people will get tired of it, someday the cost of war will be too much.

not1not2

The problem here is not that there is one single cause which is making this happen (except for maybe ignorance). There is sooo much going on here, if you address just one aspect, you aren't going to solve much. For example, while there is certainly the element of bad blood between Judaism & Islam, a lot of the problem stems from European colonialism in which much of the Arab world was taken by European countries. Israel as a Jewish State would not exist if not for this. So, Israel represents this invasion by western influences in what was previously Arab lands. Granted we can go back further & see the Muslim invasions & the Crusades to 'take back the holy land' & such, but that is far from the memory of current Palestinians. All they know is Europeans invaded their lands & created a Jewish state in the aftermath of WWII & there has been a clash ever since. Many Arabs, especially the militant ones, still view Israel & all western forces stationed in the Middle East as an occupying invader and can justify their militant stance in this manner. The Koran allows Muslims to defend themselves from invaders & those that work against their religion. Seen in this sense, it is easier to see the Palestinian & Arab POV. It doesn't justify their actions, but it does explain a lot, imo. That combined with the religious conflict, economic strains, the US funding the Israel Military (including sending them missiles during the current conflict) & more have all contributed heavily to the current conflict. And underneath all of the historical causes are the poisons of Ignorance, Greed & Aversion which cause us to see unclearly and make improper judgements & responses.

This is quite a messy situation, even without the current military fighting.

_/\_
metta

ajani_mgo

I am starting to give up all hope of peace in the region during any era of mankind... Well the Christians'd say this spells God's signals in the End Times, but then is it so true, like someone once said, "that in every era of mankind there has always been war"? This is saddening stuff for a non-theist indeed!

Simonthepilgrim

Not1not2, dear friend,

I think that we have to take into account the deep guilt felt by the Allies after the Second World War. It is this which led the US to push the creation of the State of Israel through the newly-established United Nations. Because of that guilt at the way in which the "Final Solution" was ignored and Jewish refugees were rejected by the Democracies.

The Sykes-Picot Agreement, the Balfour Declaration (as amended), the Allied reneging on the promises made to gain Arab support against the Ottoman Empire and the way in which the US/European support for repressive, autocratic regimes in Saudi, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, etc.: all these bolster the belief that the 'West' has little or no regard for the Arab nations.

A story:
When Lenin died, he came before the Throne of Grace and the Almighty asked him his dearest wish.

"That socialist principles should spread over the whole world," said the Soviet leader.

"Not in a hundred lifetimes," replied the Blessed Name, and Lenin wept.

When Ronald Reagan dies, he, too, came to the Mercy Seat and was asked the same question.

"I want democracy and American values to spread across the world," answered the Great Communicator.

"Not in a hundred lifetimes," was the reply, and Reagan wept.

And, finally, when Yasser Arafat died, he came before the Compassionate and was asked his dearest wish.

"A homeland for my Palestinians," he replied.

And God wept.

not1not2

Thanks for that Simon. I realise that there was some good intentions on the part of those who established the Israel state. I was more presenting it in a manner which could potentially explain a little bit as to why many Palestinians are so anti-west.

thanks.
_/\_
metta

gregc

There are so many lies and so much propoganda that the west may view Lebanon as for example Iran or the UAE etc.... but the truth is Lebanon is a very multicultural country where Muslims and Christians coexist peacefully, it is a very liberal state, it is rare to see a Muslim woman walking around in a veil or covered from head to toe in northern Lebanon (though it's more common in the south, just headscarves though). Muslim women walk around in shorts and sleveless shirts, wear flipflops and wear bikinis to the beaches which are often crowded. Lebanon and Poland both have so much in common, and unfortunatly from what I am seeing, Israel attacking Mosques, Churches, schools, humanitarian aid convoys, hospitals and shelters is an attack on Lebanon's future, I fear this is a conflict where there is a hidden agenda of extermination of Muslim Lebanese. I've read between the lines here. But in talking with my friend, she keeps telling me no matter what happens, this is good for Lebanon. Do not worry about Lebanon, Lebanon will be back stronger and more prosperous than ever, Beirut will be better than ever. As are said in the predictions of Michel Hayek (many of his predictions come true, almost like a modern day Nostradamus, but much more precise) Lebanon will rebuild into the strongest country in the Middle East.

The west may still push and plug Israel like it was the strongest country in the ME, but Lebanon will be the real power in the ME. Lebanon will live on as long as our hearts carry the name and we are alive, we will rebuild and make Lebanon a stronger country than ever before.

buddhafoot

not1not2 wrote:

Thanks for that Simon. I realise that there was some good intentions on the part of those who established the Israel state. I was more presenting it in a manner which could potentially explain a little bit as to why many Palestinians are so anti-west.

thanks.
_/\_
metta

Again, Simon gives me things to think about that I had never really thought about before.

-bf

ajani_mgo

Great... They have violated the ceasefire... Groans...