Vipassana versus other meditations

chela

I've looked up information on vipassana or insight meditation, but I'm a little unsure of what the differences are between insight meditation, and say, zen meditation (or any other meditation). My understanding is that insight meditation means that the meditator is gaining insight into the mind. But I don't understand what it means in practice. Isn't gaining insight into the mind sort of at the core of meditation, in general?

I do understand samatha/shamatha, as just focusing on the breath and observing the mind, while letting thoughts and sensations come and go without clinging or engaging those thoughts and sensations. That is the one I am currently practicing (at least I'm pretty sure).

Jeffrey

All buddhist meditation is insight meditation including zazen. The thing is that 'insight meditation' also refers to a smallish sect and they title themselves 'insight'. But any Buddhism that teaches right view necessarily teaches insight meditation. Meditation on the breath opens out to insight because eventually the mind perceives the nature of mind itself. That is why many insight meditations eventually let thoughts 'be' rather than wait for them to fall away.

But the only expression of right view in meditation is shamata/vipashyana.

jll

Vipassana means insight in pali.

when some one say vipassana meditation,
they usually means a burmese tradition, the mahasi
sayadaw school and goenka.

these school teaches that vipassana meditation
is the correct way of meditation taught by buddha.
note that this view is held only within this movement.

i spend many years confused by vipassana meditation.
ultimately i realised that vipassana meditation is no better
than any other buddhist meditation.

buddha taught 40 methods to meditate.

chela said:

I've looked up information on vipassana or insight meditation, but I'm a little unsure of what the differences are between insight meditation, and say, zen meditation (or any other meditation). My understanding is that insight meditation means that the meditator is gaining insight into the mind. But I don't understand what it means in practice. Isn't gaining insight into the mind sort of at the core of meditation, in general?

I do understand samatha/shamatha, as just focusing on the breath and observing the mind, while letting thoughts and sensations come and go without clinging or engaging those thoughts and sensations. That is the one I am currently practicing (at least I'm pretty sure).

Zengo

Samatha is calming the mind through concentration on an object, whereas vipassana is analytical or insight meditation. There are a variety of vipassana practices, which accord with certain philosophical traditions. Vipassana is a term used by the Theravada sect, but insight meditation is present in all schools of Buddhism. The practice of Zazen is what is known as the simultaneous cultivation of both samadhi (concentration) and prajna (wisdom).

DairyLama

Jeffrey said:

Meditation on the breath opens out to insight because eventually the mind perceives the nature of mind itself.

It sounds like you're describing tranquillity as a basis for insight? Samatha as a basis for vipassana?

Sabre

Some people make a distinction between insight meditation and other types of meditation - samatha (calming) mainly. While reading the old texts, I never got the idea the Buddha taught such a distinction. Also when practicing, I didn't find there to be a great distinction between different types of meditation. Those who claim that one method teaches insight, and others don't, are just wrong. Also, insight is not something you can force with a certain technique. Insights arise when the time is right and can also happen outside of meditation.

chela

Thanks, everyone! It sounds like I wasn't far off on my idea of vipassana.

@SpinyNorman, I believe what Jeffrey is saying is that when you start meditation, first you start out by calming the mind (and body, for that matter); you don't just immediately jump into having insight without first stilling yourself in order to "see" the mind. At least, that's what my take on it is, and that is what my idea was but I keep seeing the word "Vipassana" used in ways that confused me into thinking it was some completely different type of meditation.

how

Ones sincerity and application of a practise always trumps whatever meditative differences that a practioner may hold up as to what makes one school special over another.

DairyLama

chela said:

@SpinyNorman, I believe what Jeffrey is saying is that when you start meditation, first you start out by calming the mind (and body, for that matter); you don't just immediately jump into having insight without first stilling yourself in order to "see" the mind.

Yes, that's the way I approach it, but there are different methods. In the suttas there is insight preceded by tranquillity, but also tranquillity preceded by insight.

Sabre said:

Some people make a distinction between insight meditation and other types of meditation - samatha (calming) mainly. While reading the old texts, I never got the idea the Buddha taught such a distinction.

The distinction is made in the suttas between tranquillity ( samatha ) and insight ( vipassana ), for example here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.094.than.html

pegembara

"Vipassana" as taught by the Buddha

“And what, bhikkhus, is the development of concentration which when developed and cultivated leads to the destruction of the taints? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu dwells contemplating rise and fall in the five-aggregates subject to clinging: 'Such is materiality, such is the arising of materiality, such is the passing-away of materiality; such is feeling, such is the arising of feeling, such is the passing-away of feeling; such is perception, such is the arising of perception, such is the passing-away of perception; such are mental-formations, such is the arising of mental-formations, such is the passing-away of mental-formations; such is consciousness, such is the arising of consciousness, such is the passing-away of consciousness.' This, bhikkhus, is the development of concentration which when developed and cultivated leads to the destruction of the taints.”

~ Aṅguttara-Nikāya, Book of the Fours, Sutta 41

“The monk who has retired to a solitary abode and calmed his mind, who comprehends the Dhamma with insight, in him there arise a delight that transcends all human delights.

“Whenever he sees with insight the rise and fall of the aggregates, he is full of joy and happiness. To the discerning one this reflects the Deathless.”

~ Dhammapada 373-374

Also
Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Indriyasaṃyutta, Sutta 10
Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Sotāpattisaṃyutta, Sutta 37
Aṅguttara-Nikāya, Book of the Fives, Sutta 30
Anattalakkhaṇa Sutta, Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Khandhasaṃyutta, Sutta 59
Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Saḷāyatanasaṃyutta, Sutta 28
Saṃyutta-Nikāya, Saḷāyatanavagga, Saḷāyatanasaṃyutta, Sutta 1
Majjhima-Nikāya, Sutta 149

footiam

chela said:

I've looked up information on vipassana or insight meditation, but I'm a little unsure of what the differences are between insight meditation, and say, zen meditation (or any other meditation). My understanding is that insight meditation means that the meditator is gaining insight into the mind. But I don't understand what it means in practice. Isn't gaining insight into the mind sort of at the core of meditation, in general?

I do understand samatha/shamatha, as just focusing on the breath and observing the mind, while letting thoughts and sensations come and go without clinging or engaging those thoughts and sensations. That is the one I am currently practicing (at least I'm pretty sure).

I have heard of Samatha and Vipassana meditation. The former is to improve your concentration and the latter where you observe the rising and falling of the belly is to help you gain insight. Some people told me the latter is the one practiced by Buddha.

Takuan

Samatha develops the concentration required to progress into vipassana. If you have no samadhi, then you can still do vipassana. The only problem will be that you're insight will be diluted because of a lack of concentration. This is why vipassana retreats, such as Goenka, start out with a simple mindfulness and calm abiding technique before slowly introducing insight meditation. In short, both practices go hand and hand. It's actually quite natural to flow from one state to another. For example, in samatha I will sometimes deconstruct and examine certain thoughts or feelings instead of noting them. The process of deconstruction and examination is vipassana.